New Products Poll

[MichaelCHProd]

All of the above would of course be USB and make use of the Control Manager software? :thumbsup:

[Revvin]

No fair! where is the option to vote for all of the above! :D I'll pin this topic so it stays at the top of the forum

[MichaelCHProd]

Your killing me brother :D

[Spidey]

Programmable Game Pad. Damn It. Pretty F'ing Please With A Cherry on Top

Think expansion here. Not just flight sim nuts. The PC market so lacks a good Game Pad. IF CH comes out with a good game pad, you guys will own the market.

I am thinking Dual Analog Sticks with 10 buttons like a PS2.

The game pad will be compatable with Control Manager so that you can combine it with flight sim controllers if you want. Full CMS capability. Vibration supported of course.

IT will be a much bigger market than any of your other options. Who knows, once the FPS crowd sees how good CH Game Pads are, they will start buying CH sticks as well.

Damn it....I want a GamePad. I have bought like 4 or 5 game pads that I ended up trashing because they suck

[Spidey]

Oh yeah, more thoughts on why a good Game Pad will be the way to go...

Maybe you can design a game pad that can be for PS2 / XBox in addition to the PC. Maybe you can design it so that you can do the scripting in PC and go plug it into a PS2 / XBox and have it execute the script.

I see the console crowd will be loving this option when they can pull off a 99 hit combo in a fighting game by pressing one button.

Now let me vote again..i need to stuff the ballot.

[Revvin]

Now let me vote again..i need to stuff the ballot[/b]

You can't, not unless you re-register as Spidey1, Spidey2, Spidey3 :D I'm kinda torn between the Force Feedback and F18 rig, they way I see it is the Force feeback was very popular when it was discussed in the comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim newsgroup while the F18/F15 style throttle (& stick later) setup would appeal to those who play LOMAC, the Janes sims and of course Falcon 4.0/Falcon: OIR. My only problem would be finding desktop space for them all :D

[Spidey]

Damn it. That's it. Here comes the Spidey clones to stuff the ballot.

The problem with F15 / F18 style throttles is there just aren't games out there to really take advantage of the dual throttle. I fly JF18 a lot but it just would be a waste of money for me to go buy a F18 throttle.

Well, it is kinda of a waste for me to buy gamepads for the PC now becdause i keep throwing them away.

With a F15 / F18 throttle, you are taking a small market (flight simmers) and taking a smaller target from that small market (people who want a dual throttle). With a Gamepad, you are taking the biggest market (PC & Consoles) and putting hte CH quality behind it.

Damn it....i want a game pad for my PC that i won't want to throw away after a week. Look at the competition, TM does game pads as well as flight sim controllers. Its time CH start branching out.

[Twilight]

MFD 100%!!!! The other toys I can live without, for the time being... :thumbsup:


Twilight

[DonULFonso]

Force Feedback would be nice in general ;) - I'm dreaming of a CH flight-sim rig with FF :D ! THX to the Control Manager, CHs are no longer only 2nd best after TMs, and FF could even add an important touch of immersion more!

A dual-throttle for the F-15/F-18 would be great as well - there's no alternative to the old Suncoms, and they are not fully supported under XP, unfortunately :( . A fully programmable dual-throttle, especially a replica of the "real deal", definitively would rock :thumbsup: !

A programmable game-pad would be great as well - I've just recently bought a TM Firestorm Dual Power 3 FF, but TM ain't TM :rolleyes: , so unfortunately their game-pads do have a mapper, sure, but no scripting, which simply means their means are rather limited and static instead of flexible :( . A game-pad which could be set up and programmed via the Control Manager would be another dream of mine ;) !

Just my 2cts, of course - but I'm no CH-customer... yet ;) . C'mon, convince me to migrate :D !

[BB Gun]

Beefier springs on everything you make!

The only thing keeping me from getting a Fighterstick or Combatstick is the weak springs. I'm not talking about beefing them up like the TM cougars - but rather something in between. I've been using the Logitech Wingman 3d extreme paired with my pro-throttle USB for the past year and a half and love the tension level in the stick. I could just never get used to the extremely light feel of the CH stick. It really stinks 'cause I've had to get a new one every 6 months (or swap through product replacement plan) when a switch or hat goes dead. It would be nice if I only had to do that once every year and a half or two years - like my Pro-throttle has lasted - even through a dog chewing the cables in half. :oops:

My 2 cents.

BB

[No.6]

BB, I still have my old Force FX (can't do much with it in XP) but it had a good strong force to it.

I voted for the FF stick but here's my extra request:

Include an extra length of wire in the stick shaft with unpluggable connects to the base. Allow the handle to be detached and an extension tube added so that the user can choose to set the stick up as a traditional right-hand-on-desk controller or floor-mounted.

In addition this could be an extensible system, with different-shaped handles available at extra cost.

TM promised extra control handles for the Cougar but dropped the ball on that one and I doubt they'll ever come through.

http://members.shaw.ca/bcscout/joy1.jpg

but that's for the Luftwaffle types, we'll need one for us Mustang pilots too.

[Spidey]

Originally posted by DonULFonso@Feb 10 2004, 06:52 AM
Force Feedback would be nice in general ;) - I'm dreaming of a CH flight-sim rig with FF :D ! THX to the Control Manager, CHs are no longer only 2nd best after TMs, and FF could even add an important touch of immersion more!

A dual-throttle for the F-15/F-18 would be great as well - there's no alternative to the old Suncoms, and they are not fully supported under XP, unfortunately :( . A fully programmable dual-throttle, especially a replica of the "real deal", definitively would rock :thumbsup: !

A programmable game-pad would be great as well - I've just recently bought a TM Firestorm Dual Power 3 FF, but TM ain't TM :rolleyes: , so unfortunately their game-pads do have a mapper, sure, but no scripting, which simply means their means are rather limited and static instead of flexible :( . A game-pad which could be set up and programmed via the Control Manager would be another dream of mine ;) !

Just my 2cts, of course - but I'm no CH-customer... yet ;) . C'mon, convince me to migrate :D !
Well isn't this the same Donnie who used to bash CH every chance he gets at Frugal's.

Isn't this the same Donny boy who used to say the Cougar rules..the CH sucks..blah blah blah. ;)

[DNME]

A force feedback twisty rudder stick with optical sensors, adjustable forcefeedback force and adjustable centering force. The forces should be adjustable through the software from cougar-like springforces to zero stickforces. The stick itself shouldn't fall over either when zero centering force is chosen.

A simple but advanced design just like Microsoft will work best. One that fits like a glove. The modular design would be nice as well. So that a CH twisty stick will be able to use the same CH manager software and thus be compatible with the CH pro throttle or the rudder pedals.

[Revvin]

Detachable handles would be great, it was suggested in another thread so looking at the poll so far why not a force feedback stick with detachable handles with F16 and F15/F18 handles and make us all happy :) Recognising some old WB callsigns here, welcome guys I've created a Warbirds III and Armoured Assault profile in the profiles forum and also created a .cmc file for Warbirds to help create your own if you need them, nice pic of the Luftwobble stick, I like Baal's Spitfire spade grip mod he did.

As for Don, he's welcome here and as with any opinion it can change and with the brilliant efforts of CH and Bob Church who could blame anyone for looking at CH for all their gaming needs?

[Spidey]

Let's see. It's Tuesday.

I see 10 votes for a Force Feedback Gamepad!!

I WIN

CH. Start making them please.

[Spidey]

Okay. Seriously though. Let's think about this

A F15/F18 style dual throttle will be cool...but it will not be a must have. Let's face it. Most people have a ProThrottle already and they are not likely to go get a F15 throttle unless they are really really hardcore. Thta's got to be a very small portion of the market.

Let's say newbies...they are probably going to opt for F15 stick if price is equal over ProThrottle because of the extra axis. But more than likely it will end up like FS vs CS case. Some people will have FS and some will have CS. All that will mean is that there will be even more possible combinations and less maps that people can really share.

You can have FS + PT or CS + PT or FS + F15T or CS + F15T maps.

Let's think Force Feedback Gamepad with Full Scripting Capability....

There aren't any in the market. CH will be the FIRST. And a gamepad by definition will have a much broader appeal.

Look at current Gamepad market. The best constructions are still a PS2 gamepad. You can plug that into PC with an adapter but they are not programmable. The programmabel pads from TM / MS / Logitech are just simple mapping gamepads and their construction is no where near PS2 quality.

Put a CH pad with PS2 construction and CM scripting and you have the top of the line product. Seriously.

Okay...i am done championing for the game pad. For today ;)

[Revvin]

Hehe you sure are persistant Spidey :D

[MichaelCHProd]

I don't know what to tell you brother... :( your game pad is bleeding out before our eyes.

You might need to embark on a campaign with other CH users and get some more warm bodies voting. B)

[Twilight]

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd@Feb 12 2004, 03:05 AM
I don't know what to tell you brother... :( your game pad is bleeding out before our eyes.

You might need to embark on a campaign with other CH users and get some more warm bodies voting. B)
If his gamepad is bleeding, I guess that makes my MFD definetely and completely DEAD then, huh?? :(

:D


Twilight

[Spidey]

This poll is invalid. What you are looking for is purchase intent. This poll is more like asking people what would be a cool controller to go create.

Just because something is cool doesn't mean people will buy it.

To be a fair setup, what we will need to do is to have a product description...

In our case, we can say something like a PS2 controller design..it will have mode switch control LED lights like a Fighter Stick, it will be fully compatable with control manager, it will have Force Feedback / Vibration support, and full scripting / ability to use it together with other CH controllers.

And let's say our price will be around $50 - $60. Now let's ask the question to a bigger audience and see if they would

(a) Definitely Would Buy
(B) Probably Would Buy
© May or May Not Buy
(d) Probably Would Not Buy
(e) Definitely Would Not Buy

We can ask this at SimHQ / Frugals' as well as more general sites like GameFAQ's. I can guarantee you that the game pad will have a much higher purchase intent than the F15/F18 stick or the MFD or the ForceFeedback stick.

[Spidey]

Okay made a poll for the game pad.

http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=164

Revvin
Can anyone vote here or do they need membership account to vote?

[Revvin]

Members only for forum polls though I may add a polling booth to the main site page later which would allow unregistered users to vote.

[Revvin]

I think the gamepad appeals to a smaller audience and those that do use gamepads don't really want the kind of programmability we enjoy with our flight gear. The PC format is blessed with an abundance of controls for all manner of games and uses, hell you can even buy a set of train controls for sims like MS's train sim. So what are you left with? arcade racing games like Need For Speed or perhaps sports titles like the EA sports series but what uses would merit the need for cms scripting or macros?

Remember that CH are not just looking to see what CH users want but what current non CH users would like to see. For that matter this poll will only catch those CH users who already have brand name loyalty to CH and this is why I plan to add a poll to the main site page that does'nt require a log in or registration so that for instance we could post links to a few web based forums and newsgroups and people could just browse by and vote with one click.

Just before christmas there were an increasing number of CH related threads in the comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim newsgroup, many of which started by users switching to CH while others recalling past ownership and the re-occurring opinion was that a USB version of CH's Force FX stick would be very popular indeed and this was a feeling shared by quite a few users, some of which had since changed brand of controller.

[Spidey]

Yes. Add the poll option to main page. WE need unregistered voters.

THere are plenty of games that will benefit from a fully programmable gamepad.

Games like Morrowind / Neverwinter Nights / Grand Theft Auto / Knights of The Old Republic come to mind.

For examaple, KOTOR doesn't even support a gamepad. But if you can program the axis anyway you want with CM, you can make it the controller of choice. Since you can also play with the sensitivity of the axes in CM, you can make the gamepads more doable for FPS games even.

CMS stuff will also be good for RTS games where you can program in all the commands that you would have to give to differnt units into one key press.

OVerall the GamePad market for the PC is a bigger market than a high end Flight SIm controller market.

[MichaelCHProd]

100 plus members and only 17 of you all will vote, well :censored: . Your making me look bad here brothers. How am I to convince CH that this is legitimate market research if I can't get some serious numbers?

No Spidey this is not tacit approval to create a ton of Spidey1, Spidey2, Spidey3, etc. accounts to fix the race so to speak :D

[Spidey]

We need the un-registered votes man.

If its on front page we can open up the polls to SimHQ Gamespot Gamefaqs crowd.

[Twilight]

I switch my vote to interchangeable handles... Yeah, I know they aren't included in the poll, but I thisk they are a very COOL idea. :idea:


MFDs are dead. Long live the MFDs :(


Twilight

[Falstar]

Originally posted by Twilight@Feb 13 2004, 03:00 PM
I switch my vote to interchangeable handles... Yeah, I know they aren't included in the poll, but I thisk they are a very COOL idea. :idea:


MFDs are dead. Long live the MFDs :(


Twilight
Sure, I come along to back you up on the MFDs and you switch your vote :wacko:


I would like a MFD/ICP/DED that would have more options, look more realistic, and be able to program on a faster bus than you can with the Quickshot Masterpilot. "AND" be less expensive than RealSimulator™.


:drunk:


One other thing on my "wish list" is a realistic Helicopter collective (hand twist) and stick.

:idea:

[Twilight]

OK, I'll take it back!!!

I am back on the MFD track!!!

(AT LASSSTTTT, I'm not alone anymore!!!!)

Thanks Falstar, I needed that!!! :thumbsup:


Twilight

(now, if we can just clone ourselves, let's say ten fold...hehehe)

[SmuvMoney]

A game pad that could be programmed with the Control Manager suite would be sweet to be honest. I don't know how it would handle analog input like found on the PS2 and XBOX controllers, but I'm sure CH Products will think of something should they go the pad route.

[MichaelCHProd]

The "Dual Shock" pads on the PS 2 controller are the same as the Mini Joystick in the Pro Throttle. Just different tops. ;)

[BUFF]

What I would really like to see would be a rework of the existing throttle with an arcing movement & rotaries etc.

Of course if the price is right then a "realistic" f15/18 twin throttle would be nice. :)

[Bodhammer]

I voted for ForceFeedback only because it would be easier for CH to make it given they had the ForceFX.

I would also like to see a MFD but that is a much different product and prob. a much longer dev. cycle. The only MFD I would consider buying would have real screens and that means a standard interface to flight sims or multi-monitor support.

All that said - BRING ON THE USD FORCEFX!!!

Bod

[DNME]

Forgot.

The Forcefeedback stick needs to fit like a glove.

As in:

not the other way around. I mean, you know, where a stick is modelled to fit when gloves are worn.

I'm a simnut but not that crazy to wear something like nomex gloves while simming.
:wacko:

[Animal]

I voted for the throttle, but I would seriously buy all of those as long as they are very well made and not just gimmick factor.

Bring us something innovative Mike :)

[MiniD]

In 1995 or 6... I sat in Buzz Hoffman's office as he demonstrated an MFD he'd made. The drawback at the time was the expense of a 4" tube for the device and he just couldn't sell the buisness division on it. It was one of the best ideas I'd seen. Given today's video cards, this would be even easier to impliment, but would also require people develop games to use it (Ala back to bagdad).

MiniD

[MichaelCHProd]

I have heard of the Buzz MFD but like you mentioned unless the programmers want to make the games for multiple monitors (I don't mean wrap around) there is no market for a cool MFD with even a LCD screen on it.

[S.O.B]

If you build it, they will come...or not, but build it anyway. Just make it easy for game developers to interface with. Hell, at the very least, you could use it with Back to Baghdad. :P

http://www.matthoffman.us/mfd/front-sm.jpg

[Twilight]

Originally posted by S.O.B@Feb 17 2004, 11:49 PM
If you build it, they will come...or not, but build it anyway.
Hehehe, now we're talking!!! :D


Twilight

[GunnyBunny]

Hello :)

New here, I am looking for a Stick and I was going to buy a CH Fighter stick until I found out it did not have Forced Feedback.

I am new to Sims and understand this is a trait I should be looking for.

How about this as a compromise:

A Saitek J45 Cyborg Joystick

and

CH Pro Pedals

Will this combination work well together ??

Comments welcome :)

:thumbsup:

[345]

I had to vote for the Force Feedback. The Force FX was my favorite stick I've owned and I'd still be useing it if I was able to program it in XP. Sense I can't do that I've "upgraded" to a CH USB HOTAS setup but I would gladly spend more if I could get my Force FX back.

[funked1]

FFB steering wheel + 3 pedal setup. I don't play flight sims anymore. :)

[GunnyBunny]

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=...01832#732101832 (http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=440107732&r=732101832#732101832)

Here is another interesting poll !

[Thunderbolt56]

Longtime CH user here and I just found out about this forum site.

Hi! B)

I voted for the FFB mostly because I really like the immersion and control surface feedback in prop-sims. I've used almost every (decent) JS on the market for the last 10 years and place my stock in CH...Hands down.

The only caveat is I would like to see a nice high-end JS (ala CH Fighterstick) with forcefeedback AND for leftys.

I would even forego some of the extra buttons to get a more ambidextrous stick with more functions than the Flightstick Pro and forcefeedback.

I know, I know...It's just a pipe dream, but you asked. :blink:

[Revvin]

All the more reason to produce a force feedback stick with interchangeable handles. Right from the start they could perhaps use existing mouldings to give grips like the Fighterstick, Combatstick and even the ambidextrous Flightstick style grip before perhaps covering sticks like the F18 which would need more development time.

[uhoh7]

For a high quality FFB hotas stick I would pay at least 250.00

according to this thread CH is not interested in building one:

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bb...c;f=98;t=007469 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=007469)

The only high quality FFB currently manufactured is the obscure AVB topshot pegasus, which is quite well built.

If CH cannot afford to build their own, perhaps they should find out who is making this stick and outsource production of their own design.

Information: http://www.avbusa.com/avb2003/about.htm#company_facts

Re my own recently purchased FS PT PP setup: I like the precision and the software very much. The stick is slippery and the POV is a stretch for the thumb.

The throttle is excellent.

uhoh7

[II./JG1_vonPletz]

S!

Force feedback for me :thumbsup:

[Thomasew2004]

Hi


Just added my vote, ... for what it's worth.


I would definitely opt for a splendid Fighterstick with Force Feedback.

My 2nd choice would be for an MFD.

If coerced into a 3rd choice, it would have to be for a gamepad, although I have a few gamepads already, they serve no real purpose than to keep papers from flying off my desks. I'm not even sure why I even bought them .... I thought they might have some use .... they didn't. :unsure:

I don't really see the point in an F-15/F-18 setup. It would be purely aesthetics. The Pro-Throttle/Fighterstick combo 'more' than does the job. Anybody that requires multi-engine control could look at the new Throttle Quadrant.


I'd love to be high-tailing it after some bandit .... and 'feel the force'. :)


Just my tuppence halfpennies worth .... :wacko:


EDIT: BTW, ... now that I think of it .... why don't CH do wheels anymore? My old CH Wheel and Pedals served me well.

I think a nice 'Bells & Whistles' wheel, .. with, or without Force Feedback, ... would be great. Currently, I am using an Act Labs setup, .. a Logitech LWFF setup, and a Microsoft Precision Pro wheel.

I've been using my new Pro Pedals in my racing sims, ... and what a difference. :thumbsup: .... now I just need a new CH Wheel. B)


Cheers

Tom
Port Elizabeth
South Africa

[Lithium]

If you build a ffb stick I will pre-order it sight unseen.

That's how much I want one.

:cheers:

[Thunderbolt56]

uh....what's an "MFD"?

[Revvin]

Multi Function Display, like the small display's in a jet cockpit with the buttons around each side as seen in Falcon 4.0, LOMAC etc. Quickshot made such a device some years ago, the screen did'nt function but it had all the buttons and where the screen should have been housed an inlay card depicting the information you needed or as in the case of some sim cockpit builders they used a picture of a radar screen for immersion.

[MichaelCHProd]

MFD....


ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/FA-18_Cockpit_MFD.jpg


Those are MFD's B)

[MichaelCHProd]

Just in case, this is what an F-15's controls look like....

Dual Throttle
ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/F-15_Throttle.jpg

[MichaelCHProd]

And fair is fair, here are the controls from an F/A-18...

Dual Throttle
ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/FA-18_Throttle.jpg

[Revvin]

Build it and they will come B)

[Debby]

Its really not very fair to tease these poor guys with PICTURES!!! :w00t:

[Revvin]

ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/FA-18_Cockpit_MFD.jpg


So that's what the new 'CH Cockpit Deluxe' is gonna look like! :w00t:

[Thunderbolt56]

Cool...looks righty though.

Make one of those (or even a Fighterstick) for a lefty and I'll even help underwrite/subsidize the R&D costs. Make it for a righty and I'm still left using my Flightstick.

:w00t:

[Ressu]

My vote goes FFB :cheers:

[JBaymore]

Michael (+ CH Products),

Hi.

I voted for force feedback.......but what I really want is a force feedback YOKE .....not joystick or gamepad. The CH yoke is THE choice for GA and commercial jet civilian flying...and the pedals are great too. I have the usb pro pedals and the yoke and will be incorporating them into my GA simpit (see Simviation Homebuild Cockpits Forum).

The only drawback is that the yoke does not have FF. With that effect added.... you'll likely "sweep the field" of people who fly civilian aricraft in sims. Sticks are just not the right tool for most GA or commercial craft (except Airbus). You will be alone in the market with that effect. There are already a number of possible choices for ff joysticks and "rumble pads".

In fact I am contemplating ripping apart the current yoke I own and also a Wingman 3D extreme ff stick.....and combining the two of them if I can figure out the mechanics. But having you make it for real would be the best solution.

best,

..................john

PS: An MFD that could double as a FMC setup for civilian commercial aircraft would be nice too. Looking forward to seeing the new multi-engine throttle unit.

[MichaelCHProd]

Noted B)

[JBaymore]

Thanks Michael.

..............john

[wildwolf]

Trackball.

[MichaelCHProd]

uhhhh....we make a trackball, it's USB and completely programable with Control Manager 3.0.

Here is the link to the TRACKBALL (http://www.chproducts.com/oem/track_dt225.html)


I know 531 Ghost uses one ask him how he likes it.

[531_Ghost]

Well, I for one, couldn't live without it. Takes a little gettin' used to in remembering that it's there and needs to be included in maps to work as a mouse when a map is downloaded. But when all is said and done it's great!

:cheers:

[spelchek]

I didnt vote (as I have no opinion as too what new controller CH should be making.... IM happy with my f16 fighterstick (very happy actiually :))

BUT

After using this great stick for around a month now....

I'd love to see a 2-stage trigger replace the current 1-stage one on the fighterstick...

Pull to detent for first bank of guns... then all the way to fire all guns.

Would be the icing on the cake for me anyway.

[Revvin]

Can't say I miss the two stage triger from my old TM gear but hell, why not! another button ain't gonna hurt :D

[Mernya]

Hi!
First post and all that....

I had a CH stick millions of years ago during the Gunship era. I've been using a MSFF2 the past couple years as my multifunction game controller, but I just inherited a set of Pro Pedals and an LE USB yoke from a co worker for MSFS9.

I'd like to say that I'd like to be able to purchase a force feedback set up, if at all possible. In addition to the variable forces, the weight, and the construction seems to be a little bit nicer. I think that would be great for a yoke set up. Additionally, if the yoke 'pod' was a bit bigger to accomodate the force mechanisms, the spacing and arrangement of dashboard controls would be easier.

[MichaelCHProd]

The more I think about it a Force Feedback yoke gets better and better. I woudl love to have it smack back and forth when my B-17 gets a Me-190 tickle B)

[FrenchToast]

Personnaly I would vote for a box with many buttons.

Errrrr, lemme explain...


Right now along with my hotas I'm using a programmable P8000 "command pad" from Saitek. Altough the possibility of using modes and shift keys on my throtte and stick is very useful, there are some things my brain refuses to cope with due to my advancing age (just turned 40). For example in MechWarrior, while selecting my lancemates via a 4-way switch on the throttle works ok, actually giving them orders does not. There are 9 possible orders to give, far too many to map on my controllers plus it would be difficult (to my addled brain at least) to remember which switch is "Defend my Target" and which is "Hold Fire". The nice thing with the P8000 is that I have, beside my throttle, a pad bearing a button actually _labelled_ "Radio Lancemate 1" and another button labelled "Defend my Target", etc.

Now for the bad parts: 1) the manufacturer doesn't support that device anymore, 2) the drivers and programming software are in any case horrible examples of bad programming and bad design decisions :thumbsdown: In short, that pad's days are numbered... sniff


When I saw the picture of the new TQ I though "Hmmm, buttons".

I do not care much for all the additional axes, but some 20 to 30 buttons that I could seamlessly add to any CM maps, and program via the same interface as my other controllers, now that I'm willing to pay for, if only there was some way to easily _label_ those buttons and to change those labels in a not too painful manner when I switch game/simulator.

Well, hey, one can always dream, yes? :P

FT

[MichaelCHProd]

A simple MFD would give you those things. To label them the center "screen" would have a space in between the black back and clear front. With a slot along the top of the MFD you could print out the names/commands of buttons and then slip the cheat sheet behind the screen.

Hope you voted for the MFD B)

[FrenchToast]

Hope you voted for the MFD [/b]

Well, funny you should mention that....


FT

[FrenchToast]

Well although I _did_ vote for the thing, I didn't quite expect an MFD to provide for easy labelling *. Errrr, where do I sign and can I pre-order 2 please ?

Please?

FT



* which might explain why I'm a translator and not some hot-shot computer peripheral designer...

[MichaelCHProd]

If I had been cleared hot for production I would already have pre orders but until we see some serious numbers on the front page or in here I am afraid it is an uphill battle for new products.

So tell your friends B)

[FrenchToast]

Ha I should have placed some smilie beside my comment about pre-ordering, I was sort of in sarcasm mood, as I has seen the poll results. I know that personnaly I associate MFDs with rabid Falcon4 drivers who build their own pits in their basements :)

I suppose most people see the MFD as a very specialized piece only suitable for military jet sims. I'm quite certain an MFD would prove very popular if it was advertised as a _multi-purpose_ device that adds functionnality to any sim.


FT

[Bob Church]

I didn't vote for it (I didn't vote for anything since I'm not exactly a disinterested observer here), but it would be my choice. If you do it, I can add the center section printout as a map printer opton. It would use the same basic code, should be an easy deal.

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[Writer]

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd@Apr 10 2004, 03:52 AM
A simple MFD would give you those things. To label them the center "screen" would have a space in between the black back and clear front. With a slot along the top of the MFD you could print out the names/commands of buttons and then slip the cheat sheet behind the screen.

Hope you voted for the MFD B)
The only thing about that kind of MFD is that it would suck to have to swap the printout all the time if you want to use it with lots of different games.

It would be tres cool if it could incorporate some kind of simple LCD display...along the lines of a calculator display, maybe even one little screen for each button. Then you could have the text beside each button update when you load a new profile.

I haven't voted yet because I can't decide between force feedback, a gamepad, and an MFD.

I'd personally like a nice handheld racing wheel, like my Interact UltraRacer PC. I don't play racing games enough to justify the expense or hassle of a huge racing wheel, so the handheld wheel works really well. A programmable USB version with CH build quality would rock.

[FrenchToast]

Well, I do swap the printout on my P8000 every time I switch games and it's actually less painful than swapping the darn CD-ROMs...

FT

[markl]

I would like to see a version with twist handle build in. I am looking at this from a point of view for a controller to suit all members of my family.

Also slightly stiffer springs would be nice for me, but at present my daughters friend of 7 years can use the stick now so it is good for the whole family.
Wife limits my expenditure in this area, bugger. :thumbsdown:

Better feeling buttons would be nice, but would probably add too much to the cost.

I would like to see the yoke have extra buttons as that is what I will probably get next with some pedels. On that note some better bundled packs would be nice to keep costs down. In Australia that is.

Cheers.

[markl]

How about cross plarform support for Linux (That is if it is not available now)

And twist for the handle.

[MichaelCHProd]

To be totally honest, for the money we would spend in finding and paying a Linux Code Monkey to replicate the Control Manager and the Microsoft HID drivers we could afford to buy all of the Linux gamers a new Windows XP box. B)

I have work arounds to ge the stick to run in Linux but there is no chance at programming software...unless some nice open source type codes it on his own for free :)



The twist however I will keep in mind for the dev meetings.

[BLAZERBRUCE]

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd@Apr 22 2004, 03:46 PM
I have work arounds to ge the stick to run in Linux but there is no chance at programming software...unless some nice open source type codes it on his own for free :)

Michael,

You may have a victim lol. I am learning how to program linux, and I also have a friend who is the biggest open source Linux fan who maybe able to work on this. I'll talk to him next week about this.

-Bruce

[MichaelCHProd]

By all means turn him loose on it. :)

[BLAZERBRUCE]

Michael,

I think I will put together a post to get any Linux people on the board in on this to help speed up the process. As for my buddy mike cerveny, all I have to do is say "this is your chance to convert the poor souls of MS users to linux" and im sure he will start working on it a.s.a.p. lol


-Bruce

[MichaelCHProd]

ahhh the never say crash Penguin Pals

[BLAZERBRUCE]

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd@Apr 22 2004, 01:47 PM
ahhh the never say crash Penguin Pals
Ohhhh believe me, I could make even the never say crash penguins cry when I get my hands on linux :evil: ...... ( Believe me XP is much much more stable B) )


-Bruce


P.S BRING BACK FORCEFEEDBACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ttolst]

Hi.

I am new to this forum, and registered solely to reply to this poll. I have been looking at the CH products for a while, and the only thing that holds me back is the lack of FFB. I am going to try IL2FB without FFB for a while to see if it really makes as much of a difference as i think it does, but i find the FFB to give invaluable information which helps me when pushing the plane to its limits. (or rather, it lets me know when i am getting dangerously close to them :) ) And it sometimes helps give information when there is something wrong with the plane, which might not be audible or instantly obvious from the controls. And if nothing else, if feels great when you feel the power of the guns :P

But i really need a new controller since my logitech FFB stick is really sucky. The twist function makes the rudder all but useless (at least to me), and it centers really poorly. And it has far from enough buttons, so i need to use both the keyboard and mouse, which is dangerous as i need to look away. So i have, for quite a while, been drooling over the CH products, and i will most likely end up buying the lot, that is if i can convince myself that lack of FFB is something i can live with. But i really like the idea of the stick, throttle, and pedals being tightly integrated, and i used to have a flightstick pro waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back, and it still functions. (i shouldn't have sold it :( )


Originally posted by BLAZERBRUCE
Believe me XP is much much more stable

:rofl: Thats the funniest thing i have heard all day!

[BLAZERBRUCE]

ttolst,

LOL sad but true, ever use linux and you will love XP for life(scary thought isn't it? :rolleyes: )

Oh yea, :censored: Linux KDE USB detection lol. Its going to be awhile before I can get linux users the blessing to use all the CH products in their gamming experiences :wacko:

But being the nice guy I am, I will do my best to get the issue solved :D


-Bruce

[MichaelCHProd]

You are a gentleman and a scholar Bruce. :salute:

[ttolst]

Originally posted by BLAZERBRUCE

ttolst,

LOL sad but true, ever use linux and you will love XP for life(scary thought isn't it? )


Actually, for me it is exactly the other way around :P I can't even remember when i last had a crash that wasn't caused by hardware failure (or the nvidia drivers).



Oh yea, Linux KDE USB detection lol. Its going to be awhile before I can get linux users the blessing to use all the CH products in their gamming experiences
[/b]

Yes, Linux USB does suck. (but what does that have to do with KDE?) But i don't think it is the detection part, but rather a serious lack of drivers for exotic hardware. (yes, CH products' products are exotic, compared to memory sticks, printers, mice, etc) What also lacks is an abstraction layer to handle different classes of hardware better, or rather a DirectX like thing. You can probably find replacements for most DirectX components, but i dont know of anything that comes close to the full package. At least games using OpenGL can be easily ported.

But an entirely different problem is actually finding games to play :) Yes, i know there are some, but not many. But personally i think it is a good thing that i have to reboot in order to play a game. That way it is a bit harder to get distracted from my work ;)


But being the nice guy I am, I will do my best to get the issue solved


-Bruce[/b]

Awwww :)

/Troels, Linux User, KDE developer.

[BLAZERBRUCE]

ttolst,

Yea this Usb issue is a killer lol. Initial kernal bootup works great, load the KDE, and we'll, instead of the blue screen of death, its the froozen screen of eternity lol. Actually all the usb devices I have wont function unless I plug them in after bootup. I am going to cruise the mandrake site for patches or any suggestions.

-Bruce B)

[ttolst]

Bruce,

Now that is a problem i have never seen before. I have had success with both memory sticks, zip drives, keyboards, mice, and printers, and i haven't had any lockups either.

I think it either has serious issues with some of your hardware, usb or not, or that your distribution is broken. If i was you i would try something else instead of mandrake, i have had pretty bad experiences with them in the last few releases. Both with bugs in general, and with hardware support. (it never really worked for me after they startet using devfs) I actually had an easier time getting my hardware to work in debian than in mandrake! (which is ironic as mandrake is supposed to be easy to setup and use as a desktop system, while debian is, well, manual :) )

[BLAZERBRUCE]

ttolst,

$10 says mandrake is run by communists :angry: lol, yea I think I am going to move on over to Redhat next month. Untill then, Mandrake needs to accept my Asus Nforce chipset, AMD 2400+, 512 mb ram and fx5200 256DDR because i'm not tossing the extra bucks for an intel :D , I have a linux buddy who said there is going to be a patch or something I can use because of a wide spread epidemic. Thats ok, because I need sometime to play :evil: PAINKILLER :evil: :lol:

-Bruce

[ttolst]

Bruce,

Nod, we are all commies here in europe! (at least that is what i was just told on an online forum a second ago, in a thread discussing the European Commision vs Microsoft case. I guess enforcing anti-competitive laws == being communistic ;) )

On a slightly more serious note :P redhat as a desktop system is all but dead. They butchered their standard redhat linux operating system, and now only work on their enterprise linux series. They do sponsor the Fedora project, but their quality is unfortunately quite low compared to the old redhat releases.

As for your hardware, that should be fine, amd + nvidia + linux has worked just fine for me ever since i got my, long since retired, AMD K6 200 MHz with a NVidia TNT board.

[ttolst]

On a more on-topic note, i have been playing the last few days without force feedback, and it wasn't as bad as i feared :)

I am having slight problems finding out when im pushing too hard, but have only stalled fatally once ;) I also have slight problems figuring out if i am hit or not. Kinda strange the the sound system doesn't let me know.

BUT, i have a feeling i am going to end up buying a 3-piece CH set once my exams are over :D

[BLAZERBRUCE]

ttolst,

Believe me the 3 piece setup will be your best investment yet!! :D

-Bruce

[Gate]

I think a twist rudder joystick with 4 buttons around the hat, at least 2 sliders and a good 6-8 base buttons is what the doctor needs to prescribe. :whip:

[531_Ghost]

Originally posted by Gate@May 7 2004, 08:29 PM
I think a twist rudder joystick with 4 buttons around the hat, at least 2 sliders and a good 6-8 base buttons is what the doctor needs to prescribe. :whip:
Gate,
For one, WHY would CH stoop to the level of a few wanna be gamers that aren't able to chew gum and walk? ie. FighterStick/ProThrottle/ProPedals and for some DT225 TrackBall?

Two, 4 button joystick? What are you thinking? Do you really want to step back into the stone age?


Three, 6-8 buttons on the base? Again what are you thinking? Oh nevermind I figured out what you may be thinking......

MS XBox is a few forums away down the hall! Or maybe if that's to tuff you should try one of these:
http://i21.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/c5/a8/93_1_b.JPG

Jeez! Have a nice day

[El Hondo]

I voted for the F-15 / F-18 Throttle personally but all this talk about FFB sounds cool too. My real wish is interchangable sticks. TM fell through on this maybe CH can pick it up.

BTW 531 Ghost what do you use your trackball for??? A Mouse replacement??? I always wanted one of those kensington trackballs :D

[531_Ghost]

Mouse? What's a mouse? JK, Yes I use my CHProducts DT225 TrackBall instead of a mouse AND it's programmable in CM3.0! Thanks Bob! Now as far as one of those kensington thingies, I haven't seen one of those in CM yet ;-) The DT225 in my opinion responds to input MUCH faster than a mouse, stays in one place in the cockpit, and I don't have to "find" it on the mouse pad in the heat of virtual battle. Once you've used one you'll never go back to a plain ol' mouse. You can find them in my signature for purchase ;-)

S/F
Ghost

PS How'd I do Michael/Debby?

[Debby]

Ghost! You are becoming quite the salesman! You may just make employee of the month!! ;)

[LawDog15]

If you guys put together a good F-15 combo I'd have money on that before the dust cleared. I need a good replacement for my old Suncom.

Leave the space cowboy stuff to saitek. You guys have a different niche.

:thumbsup: Here's hoping anyway :thumbsup:

By the way, in the remote event you do go that direction, maybe offer the option of heavier springs. Not as heavy as the real thing, which requires two hands for hard pulls, but enough to satisfy those wanting a little extra authenticity.

[Junkman]

May I suggest another product? From the posts I've seen, Michael seems to dislike usb hubs. Why not make one thats works properly with all the CH gear? Sorry if this is OT for this topic.

[MichaelCHProd]

I have actually thought about that. I think that if we went that route I would make it as part of the MFD.

[Lunar Wolf]

I think if CH are going to have each piece (Throttle/Rudders/Stick) connect to the PC Via USB, one of them need to have its own built in USB hub. My PC only has 4 USB ports!

[Firefox]

Now if you take this

ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/F-15_Stick.jpg

and this

ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/FA-18_Stick.jpg


Give them Both male DIN Connectors in the bottom. Make a 4 in and a 3 or 4 foot center tube with din connectors at each end (1 male and 1 female) then give the base a female din ... make them screw on to each other You have a winner. Then you offer WWII style aircraft heads slightly modifed with needed buttons and WHAMMO. Multiple heads you could sell at XX dollars


Now for these you only need 1 set of male/female dins and screw on to make em interchangeable

ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/F-15_Throttle.jpg

ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/FA-18_Throttle.jpg



And you have a Huge Product line across multi games :
:thumbsup:

[MichaelCHProd]

I think I have seen these pictures before :)

[Lunar Wolf]

F/A-18 Stick & Throttle look nicer and i prefer the position of the antenna nob on the F-18's throttle, nearer the middle finger then the pinky.

[No.6]

Something popped into my head today.

Why doesn't CH make racing controllers? The driving sim market is in very good shape, trebly so if your controller supports both PC and console driving.

Act Labs is quitting the business, Microsoft has gotten out; all that's left is some very cruddy TM junk and Logitech. Admittedly Logi MOMO wheels are good but the red one is discontinued, and (although I have a good one) their black MOMO Racing is plagued with reliablity issues.

The only wheels you can count on for long lifespan are in the > $250 range (Thomas Super Wheel, BRD Racing, Frex). Dunno about you but I see a huge market opening.

http://forums.speedgeezers.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/gpler.gif

[BLAZERBRUCE]

No.6,

I remember long ago CH making a racing setup for gameport, I checked out ebay, and I see it once and awhile on there.


-Bruce B)

[531_Ghost]

Well you could always use a Yoke and ProPedals, I do.

;)

[No.6]

Bruce: Woo, look at that long pedal travel. And that wheel angle, perfect for driving Grand Prix Schoolbus :)

http://www.technofile.com/images/exl500.gif

Ghost: There is no way I'm going to manage the 'Ring with a yoke that has a 100 degree left-to-right travel range and the toe brakes on my PP USB; the resistance is too light on the brakes and the angle's wrong for sustained pressure. They're fine for a quick jab while taxiing an aircraft, not for 45 minutes or more of racing.

You know how we like precision and long throw length in our CH sticks? That's the same thing race simmers like in their pedals. That and progressive resistance with a heavier feel to the brake pedal. The wheel needs 270 degrees of travel. The paddles should be precise and not break their microswitches (like many people have happen to their Logi MOMO Racing).

I'm *not*, emphatically *not* saying CH should produce a new wheel and not a new flight controller, but rather that we should have a new flight controller and a wheel.

Edit: oops, Bruce is probably talking about the "CH Racing Wheel" rather than the "EXL500" model:

http://www.technofile.com/images/racingwheel.jpg

That's more like it, just needs paddle switches and however many buttons console drivers need so the Gran Turismo fans can do their thing.

[531_Ghost]

Originally posted by No.6@Jul 1 2004, 07:49 PM

Ghost: There is no way I'm going to manage the 'Ring with a yoke that has a 100 degree left-to-right travel range and the toe brakes on my PP USB; the resistance is too light on the brakes and the angle's wrong for sustained pressure. They're fine for a quick jab while taxiing an aircraft, not for 45 minutes or more of racing.


Rgr that No.6 I don't do a lot of raceing. Sounds as tho the Race crowd is as tempermental as the flight sim crowd is in the FM and all. But wouldn't adjusting the gain on the Yoke compensate for the other 170 degrees of travel? Just a question. Seems to have done OK by me.

~S~
Ghost :cheers:

[Debby]

Where were all you racing fans 5-6 years ago?!?! :rant:

[BLAZERBRUCE]

Debby,

Getting ready for H.S graduation and going broke from insurrence payments and Diesel :(




-Bruce B)

[531_Ghost]

Originally posted by Debby@Jul 1 2004, 10:29 PM
Where were all you racing fans 5-6 years ago?!?! :rant:
Sorry Debby, Sims were but a mere twinkle in my eye back then :lol: I was to busy playin' with the real thing here at MCAS Camp Pendleton ;)

[Debby]

Originally posted by BLAZERBRUCE@Jul 1 2004, 08:16 PM
Debby,

Getting ready for H.S graduation and going broke from insurrence payments and Diesel :(




-Bruce B)
I see you had trouble parking that beast, Bruce!! :lol:

[BLAZERBRUCE]

Debby,

Yea, thats what my Principle said when I used to park on top of the snow mounds :evil:


-Bruce B)

[No.6]

Originally posted by Debby@Jul 1 2004, 10:29 PM
Where were all you racing fans 5-6 years ago?!?! :rant:
5-6 years ago I was exclusively flying WarBirds ... let's see, that's 1998-1999, so that would be with CH Pro Pedals, a CH Throttle (not Pro), and TM F-22 stick.

I started with GPL in 2001. Still fly WB of course :)

[davoaz]

I voted for a FFB. Been using MS for the last few years and got accustomed to flying by feel. Now that my MS FFB is kaput I went from hero to zero overnight.

Also wouldn't mind seeing it with a twisty too.

[531_Ghost]

How 'bout this one? ;)
http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/tech/wood_joystik.jpg
Don't know what we'd do with all those buttons/switches tho :blink:

[Lunar Wolf]

its, its beautiful, oh that finish, great stuff! :thumbsup:

[Yobbo]

Wouldn't mind a rotary or wheel like throttle is on the fighterstick 'cept where I can thumb or finger it without taking my hands off.

And one of those cheapy home breathalisers that I have to blow into to enable my weapon firing and manual prop pitch controls to work, many an engine revved to 50000 and a team mate in flames due breaking the 8 hours rule. :drunk:

[sclincoln]

Originally posted by BB Gun@Feb 10 2004, 05:28 PM
Beefier springs on everything you make!


How about adjustable spring tensions on everything. I'd rather be able to cancel the spring tension entirely for flying helicopters. When I was getting my Advanced certification over at Hoversafe, I pulled my Combatstick open and yanked out the springs so that I could hover more precisely. If there were a dial or perhaps a screw the could be adjusted to increase/decrease the spring tension, then everyone would be satisfied.

[sclincoln]

Originally posted by Falstar@Feb 14 2004, 12:57 AM
One other thing on my "wish list" is a realistic Helicopter collective (hand twist) and stick.


The Pro Throttle works pretty well as a collective when strapped onto the side of your chair. The twist control for the throttle can be assigned to the ministick (you never use it that much anyways). The only problem is that you can never let go or it drops to zero. But with all the programmability of my Combatstick and Pro Throttle, I find that the only reason I need to let go is because I forgot to add a function to my map and need to use the keyboard or mouse for something.

[MichaelCHProd]

Did you checl out Ghost's mod.... HERE (http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=484)

[Nickel]

I voted for game pad, but make it burly enough to fly falcon! Lots o' buttons and PLEASE put a throttle on it. How about a little mfd between the sticks? That would REALLY make me happy.

[Nickel]

Just read thru the rest of the thread. How about a stick or throttle that has a thumb sized trackball built in so you don't have to move your hand for mouselook? I would pre-order that in a heartbeat, totally serious.

[531_Ghost]

Originally posted by Nickel@Oct 10 2004, 07:53 AM
Just read thru the rest of the thread.Â* How about a stick or throttle that has a thumb sized trackball built in so you don't have to move your hand for mouselook? I would pre-order that in a heartbeat, totally serious.
<div align="right">7295
[/quote]

Hmmmmm ;)

[Revvin]

Originally posted by Nickel@Oct 10 2004, 08:53 AM
Just read thru the rest of the thread.Â* How about a stick or throttle that has a thumb sized trackball built in so you don&#39;t have to move your hand for mouselook? I would pre-order that in a heartbeat, totally serious.
<div align="right">7295
[/quote]

Uh the throttle has a ministick that can emulate the mouse and personalyl think it&#39;s a much better solution than a minature trackball as it gives more precise control.

[Nickel]

I must disagree. I&#39;ve tried the microstick as a mouse and it is nowhere near as smooth as mouselook. I&#39;m a framerate pig, usually use the lowest graphics settings even though I&#39;m running a p4 3.2ghz/radeon 9800 pro to get glassy smooth gameplay. I get over 100 fps in most of my sims (still working on lomac) and it is addictive. You can feel the flight model so much better. Maybe its just me, but when I use microstick mouse it is a little jerky no matter what the settings. Same with track ir. A built in trackball wired normally (not connected thru ch manager, or some kind of switching to have the option) would be the ideal solution for me. I&#39;m going to open up my throttle and see it there is room in there to do it myself. I think the perfect spot would be where the hat on the front, to the right of the three handle buttons currently lives.

[531_Ghost]

Careful Nickel, remember the warranty ;)

[Nickel]

Roger that. The throttle is still unviolated. On the other hand, the warrantee on the stick is toast. I seem to remember a fair amount of room around the thumb button. How hard would it be to get some kind of trackball in there? The other option I&#39;m considering is to put the fighterstick throttle up on the grip (saw it in another thread). Then get a big trackball and put a bunch of buttons around it with an encoder card.

[IndioBlack]

I&#39;ve still got two Quickshot Masterpilot MFD&#39;s from 1997 which operate in series with the keyboard. They are great, but sometimes the key presses don&#39;t register because of the loading on the series connections. At one point I had connected:

Keyboard - gamepad - MFD - MFD - Computer,

and occasionally a button-press would make the computer beep in agony. Plus, if you&#39;r keys had complicated commands like Shift + something, you could get a missed command.
An MFD that worked on USB connect would be great. I might buy two.

The Quickshot Masterpilot had four sets of six buttons around a central area where you put the information card. At the bottom was a two-position lever, and two extra buttons.
There were also five extra buttons to control modes, so that each key could have five separate commands assigned - one for each mode.

What were you thinking of doing?

[sambt]

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd@Feb 9 2004, 07:44 PM
All of the above would of course be USB and make use of the Control Manager software?Â* :thumbsup:
<div align="right">575
[/quote]

I would like to see a single WW2 replica throttle with prop and fuel. An option for gear and flaps in either small levers or buttons also. My idea is to attach it to either side of pilot&#39;s seat.

This thing must look close to the real deal. I would sell my three year old grandaughter to raise money to pay for this beauty. So, how long do I have to wait?

Thanks Sam

[JBaymore]

There are a lot of folks that fly GA and commercial large jets. We tend to use yokes and pedals. How about a FORCE FEEDBACK yoke and pedals.

I miss my ff joystick.

best,

.................john

[RichardIII]

I voted for the dual throttle. Ifly strictly WWII CFS&#39;s and I&#39;m hoping some day that somebody will create one that will let me fly a P-38 like they were meant to flown. Tightening the turning radius by using throttle input! :thumbsup:

Rich :salute:

[IndioBlack]

Originally posted by RichardIII@Mar 24 2005, 12:10 AM
I voted for the dual throttle. Ifly strictly WWII CFS&#39;s and I&#39;m hoping some day that somebody will create one that will let me fly a P-38 like they were meant to flown. Tightening the turning radius by using throttle input! :thumbsup:

RichÂ* :salute:
<div align="right">11682
[/quote]


Why not use the Quad Throttle for this. You have six levers, so you assign two to prop pitch, two to mixture and two to throttle. Set up like this, you can fly the P-38 like it was meant to be flown.

Now you can vote for the switch panel instead. B)

[Jakub]

Trim wheels?

Adjustable base on FighterStick/CombatStick? :)

[531_Ghost]

Originally posted by Jakub@Apr 6 2005, 05:27 PM
Trim wheels?

Adjustable base on FighterStick/CombatStick? :)
<div align="right">11944
[/quote]


That&#39;s what the 8 way "POV" is for on the FighterStick, trim ;)

[leafer]

I voted for throttle but this is what I really want. It&#39;s the stick all the other stick called its daddy! Like the AK-47, ugly but at the same time fasinating to look at. :D :drool: :w00t:

http://3dgraf.ru/photo/air/pilot/new/P1010013b.jpg

http://3dgraf.ru/photo/air/pilot/new/P1010011b.jpg

I still don&#39;t have enough to buy a set of HOTAS, but seriously, when I do get the cash it&#39;ll be a tough decission between Cougar and CH Products. And this is from a person who doesn&#39;t want to support mediocre product like the Cougar so Guillemot can keep on crunching them out for us poor simmers to fix it ourselves. But the reason I would even consider a Cougar is I really hated the look and feel of CH throttle. Sorry, but man it&#39;s funky looking and I prefer the arch type. hehe

I used to have ForceFX (loved it), Cougar and Simped Vario Pro but sold them cuz I needed money when I moved back to Thailand. However, I still have Combat stick, Pro throttle and pedals I bought in 1995. :)

And if CH would just redesign the whole HOTAS to resemble other than the F16, you got a customer for life. :D

[elanaiba]

Ok, I voted. I want a new throttle.

I just got myself USB FSTQPP to change my gameport FSCP. They rock.

And I&#39;d like a jet sims throttle, but hate the looks and lack of rotaries on the current throttle. So bring a new one on!

:)

Dan

[wlibaers]

None of the listed options. Let&#39;s have a look:

MFD: certainly not in its base form. If you just have buttons around the sides, with a large empty space in the middle for a keycard, that&#39;s wasted space. Now, if the MFD would be a powered USB hub suitable for other controllers, and you put a trackball in the middle area, things might get interesting. Still, it would be hard to compete with something like this:
http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/

A real MFD would, of course, be very nice. But not without sims to use it, and game companies are unlikely to support it unless they become very common. :(

Gamepad. What are CH&#39;s strenghts? Precision and durability? Do you need that in a gamepad? You can&#39;t control those microsticks as accurately as a joystick anyway, and gamepad games are designed to take that into account. Durability: for that price you could probably buy 3 cheap gamepads from another brand.

Force Feedback: As long as it doesn&#39;t reduce accuracy. Which means: forget it.

F-15/F-18 style throttle. Probably not a good idea. First, most jet sims only support a single throttle axis, even if they allow you to fly the F-15 or F/A-18. Next, there is already the throttle quadrant for those who really want this kind of thing. Worse, Michael has mentioned already that making new molds is rather expensive, and these would require complicated molds.


So, what would I like to see? I propose the following compromise between desirability and feasability:
Interchangeable GIMBALS!

OK, as most of the forum surely thinks I&#39;m completely insane :wacko: after that previous sentence, let&#39;s elaborate:

I&#39;d consider two types:

- a non centering gimbal set. No springs, no deadzone. The helicopter flying system.

- a force sensor system instead of potentiometers. No real gimbals, miniscule stick movement. The F-16 (or suitable for modern jets in general) system. (this would be my personal preference).

Advantages:

-keep the Fighterstick handle. Sure, interchangeable handles may be nice, but would offer no real added functionality, and after seeing the pictures it seems like they&#39;d offer less functionality (fewer switches) than the F-16 one. Bad value. On the other hand, my suggestion would allow for significant added functionality: to get a stick with a response tuned to a style of flightsims, while still allowing the old fighterstick upper part to be used. A drawback of the Fighterstick might be that it is often considered to be a bit too big. Well, yes, I don&#39;t have very big hands, and a smaller Fighterstick would probably be more comfortable. But when flying, it doesn&#39;t really bother me that much, I just have to shift my grip occasionally.

- They might be offered as gimbal replacements only, or as fully assembled fighterstick addons.

- There are a number of people who were willing to pay for an expensive Cougar, and then more than double that price to get a force-sensitive stick. Making one with the right components in it from the start would probably be cheaper, and attract some attention. For the no-force variant, I&#39;ve seen at least two people in the forum with the intention to remove springs from the Fighterstick for helicopter flying.

[Corsair8X]

I voted for the throttle but I want it sort of different. I still haven&#39;t gotten my ProThrottle yet but I like the idea of it. However, I&#39;m still confused as to why after so much time, it does not include arched movement. From other places I have heard that this is the ONE factor that stops people from getting CH - the sliding action of the throttle. It stopped me for the longest time until I could no longer ignore the quality issues of the Cougar equipment that I bought.

Here is my proposal for the perfect combat throttle. Follow the design of the F-15. Here&#39;s a picture of an older "competing" item:

http://web.telia.com/~u41500035/bilder/joystick/f15guide/sfs.gif

Now, what doesn&#39;t stand out too well is the wheel on the outboard side. That is important. It will keep people asking for a trim wheel quiet. Replace all of the rocker switches with your own excellent 4-way hats, INCLUDE the arching action of the throttle and you have an instant hit. Done. You wouldn&#39;t even need it to be a dual throttle. You could essentially use most of the controls that currently exist from the Pro Throttle. Call it the ultra-throttle. Call it whatever you like.

I will personally promiss that I will buy two or three of these if you come out with it. That&#39;s in addition to the ProThrottle that I am still waiting on delivery from one of your resellers and the TQ that I already have.

This, and this alone will guarantee you the ultimate HOTAS setup. You already have the top and well-respected CH quality on your side. Now you will have the best throttle as well. I strongly suspect that people will come over in droves from Cougar-land. Why? Because like me, they don&#39;t want to suddenly shell out a lot of money just to get their sticks working the way they should have in the first place and they resent being put in the position that Guilmont put them in. Because the CM software may actually be the superior control software and they just don&#39;t know it yet - but they will soon enough. Because many who fly combat sims also fly civilian sims and having all your stuff from the same manufacturer (and under the same control software umbrella) just makes sense (especially when things like pedals can be shared). Because at present you have the only reasonable priced rudder pedels with toe-brakes that are are easily available and Guilmont will get around the reproducing ruder pedals when hell freezes over because I suspect that they are not interested in continued support of the Cougar line or flight-sims in general (how else to explain how the pot problem has gone on for years now unresolved). And finally, because CH will have put out a new throttle with more programmable items (hats/buttons, etc) than the TM TQS, and in doing so will have eliminated a key reason for so many people choosing Cougar in the first place.

A more realistic throttle is needed to compliment the realistic civilian TQ. If you don&#39;t like mixing aircraft controls, then find info on the F-22s throttle and emulate that. Failing that, just change the base on your Pro Throttle.

I hope this inspires you.

[JNOV]

I like the way wlibaers thinks! I don&#39;t need new gimbals, though. I&#39;d settle for Hall sensor/increased resolution (1024 ticks/per axis) kits to upgrade the internals of my FS, PT, and PP. This seems doable to me, as the components would be cheap (but it probably would require modification of the existing drivers to deal with the increased resolution).

- JNOV

[IndioBlack]

Originally posted by wlibaers@Aug 15 2005, 12:21 AM
None of the listed options. Let&#39;s have a look:

MFD: certainly not in its base form. If you just have buttons around the sides, with a large empty space in the middle for a keycard, that&#39;s wasted space. Now, if the MFD would be a powered USB hub suitable for other controllers, and you put a trackball in the middle area, things might get interesting. Still, it would be hard to compete with something like this:
http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/

<div align="right">14550
[/quote]

I disagree with your unequivocal approval of the optimus.
I have something similar called X-Keys:

http://www.xkeys.com/

As you will note there are versions with track balls and such, but I have the 58 Key pad. Like the optimus, you remove a key cover, stick a little label inside describing what you&#39;d like the key to do, and then put the cover back. It&#39;s a little fiddly but you&#39;d hope to do it only once - wrong. Especially if you have lots of different Sims, like I do.
Now it&#39;s true that many Sims have similar key commands - flaps and gear are common (mine are on Quad levers anyway) so you can assign them to the one key permanently. So if you&#39;re flying PACIFIC FIGHTERS, for instance, you need to map things like chocks, wing fold, arrestor hook, select engine 1, 2, 3, 4 etc, none of which commands are any use to LOMAC. The latter has radar commands, IO commands, lots of modern stuff that PACIFIC FIGHTERS doesn&#39;t need.
If you add up all the different key commands that every Sim you have uses, (allowing that some will be mapped to your CH kit) you&#39;ll get more than 58 - more than 102 as well. If you did manage to whittle it down by discarding useless ones, you&#39;d still have an optimus or X-key pad where half the keys marked don&#39;t actually apply to the Sim you&#39;re currently flying. They apply to the other Sim you have.

This is where the beauty of an MFD comes in - like the Masterpilot that Quickshot developed some years ago. To change what a key-set does, you just insert a new card with the commands that apply to that particular Sim. So the chocks and wing fold of PACIFIC FIGHTERS are on it&#39;s card, and the Radar and IO commands are on LOMAC&#39;s card. Changing a card is a lot simpler than changing 25 plastic key covers and the accompanying inlays. I found this out the hard way, and if I had a USB version of Masterpilot I&#39;d be using it now. Trouble is, they never made one.

So, over to you CH - let&#39;s have a new Masterpilot style MFD for USB, right?

Oh, and that switch panel I was asking for B)

[wlibaers]

Originally posted by IndioBlack+Aug 21 2005, 02:31 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-wlibaers@Aug 15 2005, 12:21 AM

http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/

<div align="right">14550


I disagree with your unequivocal approval of the optimus.
I have something similar called X-Keys:

http://www.xkeys.com/

As you will note there are versions with track balls and such, but I have the 58 Key pad. Like the optimus, you remove a key cover, stick a little label inside describing what you&#39;d like the key to do, and then put the cover back. It&#39;s a little fiddly but you&#39;d hope to do it only once - wrong. Especially if you have lots of different Sims, like I do.
<div align="right">14688</div>
[/b][/quote]

You see, that&#39;s the nice thing about that keyboard I linked to. You do not put labels in those keys. You can&#39;t even put labels in there, that&#39;s not how it&#39;s supposed to work. In the Optimus, every key has a built-in computer screen! With an utility like Control manager, you could just load a profile and all the labels would appear automatically. It could even change the labels instantly when you press a mode key. That&#39;s what would be nice about it, in my opinion.

Disadvantage: cost. Even though they&#39;re planning to use cheap (compared to other technologies) OLED displays, they expect "It will cost less than a good mobile phone." Knowing the prices of some mobile phones, that could be a pretty scary price...


Of course, this suggests an option for an MFD. No keys at all, Just an LCD panel with touchscreen, Control Manager-like software to put layouts on the screen and to define touch-sensitive areas. It wouldn&#39;t even be unrealistic, for example Jane&#39;s F/A-18 models the middle MFD as a touchscreen. More expensive, yes, but also likely to be more useful than a simple MFD with only buttons on the sides.

A second advantage would be to get real MFD displays that actually work as an MFD in games. Making an MFD with a screen to be used by games would be useless, it wouldn&#39;t be bought without some games that use it, and no games would be made to use it if no-one had it. But with such a programmable touchscreen, you have a good reason for the MFD, getting out of the catch-22. It would obviously also be useful for any program with lots of commands, not just games.

[wlibaers]

Originally posted by JNOV@Aug 21 2005, 04:34 AM
I like the way wlibaers thinks!Â* I don&#39;t need new gimbals, though.Â* I&#39;d settle for Hall sensor/increased resolution (1024 ticks/per axis) kits to upgrade the internals of my FS, PT, and PP.Â* This seems doable to me, as the components would be cheap (but it probably would require modification of the existing drivers to deal with the increased resolution).

- JNOV
<div align="right">14686
[/quote]

Hard to say anything about this without official information from CH, but this is not certain. Unless the Hall sensors are available with exactly the same package as the potentiometers currently used, changing some part of the gimbal system would still be necessary. Then the electronics may also need modification. And, perhaps high quality pots can offer the same resolution (the main reason for Hall sensors is the durability of non-contact sensors, not precision, although durability does have a positive effect on accuracy in the long run).

Besides, to fully use the greater sensitivity you&#39;d need a gimbal system with very tight tolerances to eliminate the dead zone anyway.

[IndioBlack]

[/quote]

In the Optimus, every key has a built-in computer screen! With an utility like Control manager, you could just load a profile and all the labels would appear automatically. <div align="right">14689</div>
[/quote]

Sorry, I missed that particular point there. It seems like so much science fiction, I can hardly believe they&#39;ll be able to pull it off - specially at a reasonable price!!!

However, if they can pull that off, then CH could certainly come up with an MFD where the Central area is a screen that can be programmed to label the adjacent buttons, rather than inserting a card. I note your mention of a touch-screen type mfd, but I wouldn&#39;t personally be too keen on that. Touch screens just end up being covered in greasy finger prints, and then the touching becomes a little hit or miss, whereas real buttons or switches have a definite on-off feel that doesn&#39;t degrade so easily with time.

[oliwek]

Originally posted by Revvin@Feb 12 2004, 11:49 PM
Remember that CH are not just looking to see what CH users want but what current non CH users would like to see. For that matter this poll will only catch those CH users who already have brand name loyalty to CH and this is why I plan to add a poll to the main site page that does&#39;nt require a log in or registration so that for instance we could post links to a few web based forums and newsgroups and people could just browse by and vote with one click.

<div align="right">659
[/quote]

hello everyone,
1st post from a noob :cheers:

well I have registered especially to vote, because it was an interesting poll for me
as I&#39;m looking for the perfect setup to enjoy my (rather military) flight sims...

I believed I was a non CH user (well TM and saitek are on my desk :evil: ),... before I remember to look UNDER the desk : shame on me, I had forgotten : I AM A CH USER (well, there&#39;s less choice for well distributed good rudder pedals), even twice as I use pro pedals (old) with my ... euh... cougar, and pro pedals usb in the other cases.

If Simped weren&#39;t so expensive, I must confess I would have already switched to them to accompany my hotas though :censored:

Sad to have to only vote for ONE option in this poll : WAOUw, an MFD from CH Products, that would be a fine surprise. Force Feedback? I can live without, I haven&#39;t had the opportunity to test the old CH FF, but sidewinder experience wasn&#39;t totally positive, at a time where games supported it (and I&#39;m not sure it&#39;s still the case nowadays, under win xp).
But an F-15/F-18 stick, and above all, its bi-throttle, that is what I&#39;m looking for sincealready long enough ; Falcon4 with BMS and this setup would be fantastic.
Now the posts requesting a joystick + throttle more in the mood for warbirds are also something I would like CH answers to...

edit : for the metal "high price" issue : original F15-F18 are non metal, are syntethic materials not an option? and what additonnal cost metal stick would bring? about $100 for a HOTAS? Difficult to believe it would be more, seeing new cougar sold for €300 now... I personally would be pleased to have the option of a $100 metal upgrade. And many people would, I&#39;m sure of it. Those that faced the harware problems of the cougar for example, but enjoyed it&#39;s feeling...

CH, amaze us! you&#39;ll soon have new custommers :thumbsup:

friendly,
oliwek

edit 2 : I have just noticed the age of this thread :shrug:
does it mean that CH hasn&#39;t done anything from it?
some posts have brought really interesting suggestions though

[Revvin]

Having had to delve into the internals of the various Cougar&#39;s I owned I can understand why they cost so little for a metal stick. I did&#39;nt think the quality of the metal was that high, it had a rough &#39;cast&#39; look about it and the internals were held together with hot glue and bit&#39;s of tape. I believe the metal construction brought up many issues such as the weight and wear on the gimbals (all four Cougars I owned increased their centre play over time) I believe this stress is also partly to blame for the potentiometers failing so often. Having used a Fighterstick now for some time and not experiencing any wear on the gimbals, buttons or indeed the body of the stick itself (you can squeeze the grip of my fighterstick all you like and it&#39;s solid) I&#39;d be worried about switching to a metal construction. With a good plastic mould as found on the CH devices you can mould in parts to hold switches in place and loom cables without having to resort to hot glue and tape like the Cougar and I feel that makes far more sense. I think the price of construction would also be much much higher as CH gear is made in the US and not some cheap labour Far East operation, the further from home you setup production the less control you have over quality. I also certainly don&#39;t miss the sludge that used to collect on my Cougar from my warm hands on cold metal or the paint the peeled off during use ;)

[LukeFF]

A throttle with rotaries for trim is my choice. I love the Pro Throttle but the lack of any rotaries finally convinced me to come up with a custom controller solution:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/LukeFF/FlightSimFrontA.jpg

I should have this nifty little gadget within the next week. B)

[MichaelCHProd]

I like all of the suggestions :)

Force Feedback is not looking good though, other things however..... ;)

[Fever]

A MFD would be cool, what kind of information are you planning on displaying? How would game data be passed to the hardware?


Force feedback is nice too but the previous version was way to large, if you can squeeze all the motors/electronics down to the current footprint of the non-feedback combat/fighterstick I would buy it without question.

Fever

[Debby]

It&#39;s not nice to tease, Michael...

[Revvin]

Go gamepad go!

[Revvin]

I&#39;ve got it! the perfect solution!! a force feedback joypad with a ministick shaped like an F18 stick with a fold out MFD!! perfect! :thumbsup:

[DonULFonso]

...without a cable, but with Hall-sensors ;) . Sounds good :salute: !

[Revvin]

Remember those Transformer toys that were all the rage a few years ago? how about as well as the fold out MFD the whole thing unfolds into a cockpit system :D

[Debby]

Revvin, don&#39;t make me come over there and hurt ya!

[Revvin]

Oooh is that a promise?!?! :w00t: :whip:

Perhaps you could do different models, one folds out to be a cockpit, we could call him &#39;Cocktipus Prime&#39; and another could fold out into a coffee maker/teasmaid and we could call him &#39;Coffetron&#39; or &#39;Teanator&#39;

[Debby]

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

[Debby]

Only if we can market it in different colors... magenta, peacock blue, lilac...

[Cobra360]

I like the F-15//F/A-18 style throttle idea. I play a lot of Lockon FC and I&#39;m not too sure if it supports twin throttles but all the flyables are twin engined and I feel would help me alot, especially with the amount of battle damage I get :P .

Also anybody seen the throttle of the X52 Hotas. It has a mini MFD built into the base. I think the same but a better take on this design could/should be used on the F-15/F-18 throttle. Just trying to think of the possibilities :cheers:

[paddyman]

Although not in the list above one thing that is going to be annoying me soon with the release of LO-Black Shark is having to use the mouse in the new clickable cockpit on the KA-50. Can you lads think of another way for clicking all them button&#39;s that would be more realistic?? Besides building a life like cockpit :P

Im thinking some kind of VR-Glove would be a bit far fetched but just something that you can move in the air and the cursor moves and lets you click the cockpit buttons.

[Cobra360]

The CH throttle has a mini stick on it which can act in the same way as a mouse and then you can just assign a button on the stick or throttle to click a switch. Or you can just use a HAT button.

It&#39;s not an problem really.

[SUBS17]

Hey Guys, I haven&#39;t bought any CH Hotas yet but if you guys make an F/A-18 one I most certainly will buy it. I&#39;m planning on making an F/A-18 Hornet pit for FighterOps when eventually either the Hornet is modeled or the Naval Addon is released. In the mean time I&#39;d like to add that there are some flight sims that do use the twin throttle inputs. The first one being Lockon Flaming Cliffs which includes Mig29 A/S, SU27/33, SU25/T, A-10 and F-15C. All of them have two engines and all of them support twin throttle input, the Su25T uses an advanced flight model which would make the two engine inputs even more realistic and responsive to use. FighterOps which is to be released next year will feature F-16C/D, A-10 and F-15C/D/E and is also going to have twin throttle support. Currently there is only 1 hotas available with split throttle but it is unfortunately no longer in production. (Suncom F-15 hotas). I think having 3 versions of a hotas through modification would be very cool.
1/ Standard hotas for desktop
2/ F/A-18 pit hotas with floor mounting for the stick
3/ F/A-18 pit hotas with floor mounting for the stick plus frontseat/backseat dual movement.(for pits with a backseat). One note here, the throttles and stick would move but not the rudder pedals in a superhornet.
As for this idea of Force feedback, fly by wire does not give force feedback in the real jet, basically the computer responds to the pilots input. Apart from the backseat pilots input in which case the linkages provide the movement. B)
cheers
Subs

[fatb0y60]

this is my first post here. I was directed here by subs17 over in the fighter ops forums...I too voted for the F-18/F-15 throttle. I am using an F-15 SFS from suncom which i baught in preparation for construction of a pit for fighterops. Like subs17 i dont have any CH products but if the F-18 or F-15 throttle was to be made and accurately i would buy one for sure! I intend to build either a F-15E pit or An F-18 pit for fighterops and an accurate USB F-18/F-15E throttle would be exactly what i want/need! and if done right would influence my choice of pit! Some in this forum suggest that the dual split throttle product would be aimed at a small community of simmers. In my opinion this is false as there is no other current dual split throttle on the market to compete with the abundent F-16 throttle, seems to me it would make perfect sense to produce a product that has no competition and especially with the upcomming release of fighterops "the next generation of flight sims".

Also for pit builders and enthusiests it has to be physically perfect, not just the handles but the throttle arms etc. reason i say this is because the suncom throttles while the handles are very good, the throttle arms just go straight down into the base...where as in the real thing the arms com off the handles straight down before angleing outwards and then down into the base...it is little details such as this which truely make a replica and aid the pit builders too!!

thats my 2 cents and I hope my comments are taken into account by CH (I assume this is a thread they are watching?)

[davewolf]

I dont own a CH setup but only because i dont fly western jets.

I would love to see a Russian stick and Throttle setup from CH like a Flanker/Fulcum/Frogfoot ?

Untill some make that i will stick with my X45 that i painted baby blue :)

[Trident]

Hey Guys, I haven&#39;t bought any CH Hotas yet but if you guys make an F/A-18 one I most certainly will buy it. I&#39;m planning on making an F/A-18 Hornet pit for FighterOps when eventually either the Hornet is modeled or the Naval Addon is released. In the mean time I&#39;d like to add that there are some flight sims that do use the twin throttle inputs. The first one being Lockon Flaming Cliffs which includes Mig29 A/S, SU27/33, SU25/T, A-10 and F-15C. All of them have two engines and all of them support twin throttle input, the Su25T uses an advanced flight model which would make the two engine inputs even more realistic and responsive to use. FighterOps which is to be released next year will feature F-16C/D, A-10 and F-15C/D/E and is also going to have twin throttle support. Currently there is only 1 hotas available with split throttle but it is unfortunately no longer in production. (Suncom F-15 hotas). I think having 3 versions of a hotas through modification would be very cool.
1/ Standard hotas for desktop
2/ F/A-18 pit hotas with floor mounting for the stick
3/ F/A-18 pit hotas with floor mounting for the stick plus frontseat/backseat dual movement.(for pits with a backseat). One note here, the throttles and stick would move but not the rudder pedals in a superhornet.
As for this idea of Force feedback, fly by wire does not give force feedback in the real jet, basically the computer responds to the pilots input. Apart from the backseat pilots input in which case the linkages provide the movement. B)
[/b]

I&#39;m in the same boat, no CH HOTAS here (and no other HOTAS either) due to lack of dual throttle control. As a matter of fact I tried to write an e-mail to CH&#39;s product suggestion address on this subject but it seems it didn&#39;t get through. If they decide to make a split throttle I&#39;ll be very happy indeed :thumbsup:

FWIW, here&#39;s what I wrote in the e-mail:

"Hi,

I&#39;ve just lost yet another auction on eBay trying to procure a Suncom SFS dual throttle. Why am I telling you this? Well, I consider the Suncom HOTAS to be one of the best available (or not!), due to its flexibility, reliability and excellent price/performance ratio.

Granted, its major selling point, being able to programm buttons without software and on the fly, has been made redundant by advanced key mapping software such as yours and its Gameport connection is anachronistic. However it&#39;s undeniable that the Suncom has a feature that no other mainstream HOTAS can rival today: It is a quality replica of a real jet HOTAS (much like the yours and those by Thrustmaster) and features dual throttle control. Now I know you recently released your Dual Throttle Quadrant which makes an excellent supplement to your flight yokes, but you&#39;ll have to admit that it&#39;s something of a compromise for people wanting to fly fighter jets with it. Not only would it look out of place, it also lacks the ergonomics and functionality (read: easy-to-access buttons and hats) that make a great HOTAS control. And there most certainly are simulation titles that would benefit, infact the only current modern combatsim with on-going development (which is basically the type of game that HOTAS&#39; are intended for), Lock On: Modern Air Combat by Eagle Dynamics, features twin engine aircraft and the ability for independent engine control exclusively.

To cut a long story short: my suggestion would be that CH Products release a throttle (better yet, a complete HOTAS) similar to Suncom&#39;s SFS but with modern technology. The key feature of this would be dual throttle control via split levers, I&#39;d also like to see arcing throttle movement and idle/afterburner detents. I don&#39;t really care what aircraft the controls would replicate although the F-15E sounds like a sensible option, since a multitude of modern MDD (now Boeing) combat aircraft use the design. This includes all F-15 versions after the MSIP upgrade AFAIK and also all F/A-18 versions right up to the E/F (both LockOn and the prospective FighterOps feature the Eagle). A new stick would not be an absolute requirement, given that you already have some excellent ones available, but would be great to have to match the throttle. Infact, if you simply recreate the Suncom HOTAS (minus the programming and Gameport connection) using CH design and technology you&#39;d end up with just what I&#39;m envisioning. The throttle in particular would make a great high-end alternative to the current Pro Throttle.

Thanks for listening to these frustration-induced thoughts of mine ;)"

[davewolf]

The Su-25/T that i fly solely in Lockon has spilt throttle, have you thought about the idea of making interchaneable joystick bodies ?

The throttle could be a mix of US and RU throttle parts and you could make seperate joystick handle/head for diiferent planes available in the modern jet games. I for one would buy one for what it counts :)

Mig29, Su-27, Frogfoot, F-15/18 etc ?

Plus Eagle Dynamics next titles will include a Mig-29, F-16 and A-10 sims along the lines onf Falcon (ie clickable pit).

[ruggbutt]

I&#39;d just be happy with a split throttle. I have the TQ but I use it for other functions.

[Zuki]

Split throttle for shure! You folks at CH ROCK! :yahoo:

[MichaelCHProd]

I am watching :)

[3rdELT]

All of the above would of course be USB and make use of the Control Manager software? :thumbsup:
[/b]
I voted for F-15/F-18 Stick

[MichaelCHProd]

I LIKE the direction this poll is headed.

[Debby]

Yeah, we&#39;re watching SUBS !!

Watched you over at SimHQ. Watched you over at Frugals. Watched you over at FighterOps. And so on.

I bet you are going to have some serious finger cramps soon! ;-)

Thanks for creating such a stir. We&#39;ll do what we can do...

:thumbsup:

[Cobra360]

Yeah, we&#39;re watching SUBS !!

Watched you over at SimHQ. Watched you over at Frugals. Watched you over at FighterOps. And so on.

I bet you are going to have some serious finger cramps soon! ;-)

Thanks for creating such a stir. We&#39;ll do what we can do...

:thumbsup:
[/b]

In highlight of SUBS campaign, I believe it was me who gave the initial push on the lo-mac.com forums ( I use a different I.D there) and SUBS seemed to take a real shine to it and went on a mad rampage to get this stick made. :cheers:

If only I continued on as he did :blush:

Either way about how much more support is needed to get this Hotas in production. Think SUBS is lookin for a commission or a price disscount when this Hotas come around. :cheers:

And where this new push all started

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc...06/m/9991046563 (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/38610606/m/9991046563)

[Trident]

LOL! BTW, are those images on page 4 of this thread actual prototypes built by CH?

[D.B.Cooper]

Hi All,

My first post here :)

I voted for Force Feedback and according to the poll it looks like it could go either way between FFB and Dual throttle. I am pretty surprised at that to be honest seeing as IMO the two Largest flightsim communities, IL2 and FS9, would most likely be interested in a FFB setup. I mean we have had the chance to purchase a realistic Hotas for years but how many professional FFB setups have ever been released?

FFB offers a level of immersion that has to be experienced to be believed. It&#39;s like a poor mans walk in simulator with working hydraulics giving you the sensation that your entire cockpit is reacting to its environment. A professional FFB Stick from CH is exactly what a lot of flightsimmers have been looking/waiting for and right now we are making do with, most likely, aging MS Sidewinders without the option to purchase a more realistic Hotas setup with FFB as a feature. The sad thing is pretty soon the flight sim community will be the only group of enthusiasts that don&#39;t have an option to purchase a setup with some kind of feedback, heck I can&#39;t even remember the last time I picked up game pad for a console that didn&#39;t have a rumble sensation. Well that’s all I wanted to say, Happy voting all.

Oh one last thing, why do some think its an F18/15 Stick and throttle. If I understand this thread correctly then isn’t it just a dual throttle.

[SUBS17]

Yeah, we&#39;re watching SUBS !!

Watched you over at SimHQ. Watched you over at Frugals. Watched you over at FighterOps. And so on.

I bet you are going to have some serious finger cramps soon! ;-)

Thanks for creating such a stir. We&#39;ll do what we can do...

:thumbsup:
[/b]

Thanks it was Cobra360 who first posted in the Lo-mac forum. I thought I&#39;d let every other Hornet fan know that someone was considering making them.

[Debby]

LOL! BTW, are those images on page 4 of this thread actual prototypes built by CH?
[/b]

No, unfortunately not.

[Dirk98]

F-18/15 Joystick of course!!! It will be a huge success in the flightsim market. No competition, only CH.

Ghost, where are you? You there? Here&#39;s a vote for us, mate.

Wait a minute, guys, I want to vote but dunno how to do that. How can I enter the poll? :unsure:

Turns out I already voted and forgot about this poll. :blush:

[gregplus]

An Russian type of Joystick&Throttle would be nice as well!

[531_Ghost]

F-18/15 Joystick of course!!! It will be a huge success in the flightsim market. No competition, only CH.

Ghost, where are you? You there? Here&#39;s a vote for us, mate.

Wait a minute, guys, I want to vote but dunno how to do that. How can I enter the poll? :unsure:

Turns out I already voted and forgot about this poll. :blush:
[/b]


Psssst Dirk98, voted months ago
;) B)

[ruggbutt]

Ya know Michael, I&#39;m making another movie and it wouldn&#39;t be hard to feature new CH hardware in the movie itself..........

[SERIK]

An Russian type of Joystick&Throttle would be nice as well!
[/b]


Agree ... quite alot of us are flying Russian birds ( Flanker, Lock On ) and i think it would be a good idea to make a Hotas for these Birds too. :flying:

[Scratch]

Wider Rudder Pedals!
Presently its my only complaint about an otherwise perfect HOTAS.
The present ones must have been designed by a eunich.

[SnakeJDavis]

Hi Michael,

I&#39;d like to vote for the MFD, but it won&#39;t accept my vote for some reason. :(

Make it like the MasterPilot, with multiple "pages" of button/switch programmability; and software that prints out a nice command reference sheet to slide into the "screen" area. Please make the layout a little more realistic than the MasterPilot also. I&#39;d buy (2) of them. :thumbsup:

The F-15 / F-18 HOTAS setups would be fantastic also! :cheers:

Please also consider doing a mini trackball that I could strap to the side of my throttle base; I&#39;ve been using a Logitech Trackman Portable, but it&#39;s pretty thrashed from years of use.

Keep up the good work! :salute:

J. "Snake" Davis

[MichaelCHProd]

How small and do you want it to light up?

http://www.chproducts.com/oem_flash/track_backlit_mini.html

[ArmchairAce]

This is an ouststanding idea! Not every company asks their customers about their future products! I apreciate it alot! :thumbsup:

I have voted for the F-15/F-18 style throttle as I hope next CH throttle will have several trim wheels/potentiometers = more like a X45 or Cougar throttle. Current Pro Throttle USB is almost perfect but lacks two important things:

1. at least two detents - start/idle - end/afterburner

2. conveniently placed trimwheels - at least one under thumb...

Now I am using Fighterstick USB + X45 Throttle (because it has conveniently placed trimwheels) but if there was a better CH throttle with trimwheels I would not hesitate a single second to get my favourite setup in famous CH quality! :)

Thanks alot

AA.

[DonULFonso]

Yes, detents for the throttle, please!

And a larger base plate (extending towards the user) to rest one&#39;s hand on for the stick, please.

Make it a(n as) true (as possible) replica, not just "sort of" stuff, this time, please!

(Am I begging :rolleyes: ?)

[Revvin]

(Am I begging :rolleyes: ?) [/b]

Yes, but you&#39;re late and there&#39;s a queue :D

[Debby]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DonULFonso @ Oct 19 2005, 04:41 PM) 15722
(Am I begging :rolleyes: ?) [/b]

Yes, but you&#39;re late and there&#39;s a queue :D
[/b][/quote]


Take a number and get in the back of the line, please..

[SnakeJDavis]

Take a number and get in the back of the line, please..
[/b]

RRrrowwrrrr!!! :w00t: :drool: :censored:

j/k :blush:

[SnakeJDavis]

How small and do you want it to light up?

http://www.chproducts.com/oem_flash/track_backlit_mini.html
[/b]

The mini would probably be about the right size... I would probably prefer unlit: I&#39;m going to know right where it is, if it&#39;s strapped to the right side of my throttle base. But switchable light might be cool...

It should have at least 3 mouse buttons and be programmable, in a black housing.

Cheers :cheers:

J. "Snake" Davis

[MichaelCHProd]

We aim to please :)

[Juggernaut]

All of the above would of course be USB and make use of the Control Manager software? :thumbsup:
[/b]

Hi,

I would propose that CH make a universal base for both the throttle and the stick, and to have the upper half (ie the stick with buttons) interchangeable, so that you can have various sticks and throttle attachable to the universal bases.

So the base would be the same, but you could attach either an F-15, or F-16 etc. stick on the top. Same for the throttle.

Juggernaut

[DonULFonso]

What&#39;s wrong with the current way it&#39;s done? Want another stick, just plug it in and add it to your map.

Offering add-on handles might seem to decrease the costs the user has to pay for a handle, but for the manufacturer it means that the whole design changes. And it must allow for the common throttle to accept a dual-throttle handle with all the required connectors and mechanical parts.

Personally, I doubt that it would be worth the hassle for a manufacturer to trade in all those potential problems to replace a philosophy that&#39;s working like a charm. Just my 2cts, of course.

[ReFleX]

I&#39;d like to see WWII replica sticks... but if&#39;n I still used my CH stuff i&#39;d guess I&#39;d vote for a duel throttle or new type stick f15/18 ...


A new throttle that wasn&#39;t a slider would be even better..


ReFleX

Oops just noticed this topic started over a year ago.... has anything been done??

[SnakeJDavis]

Oops just noticed this topic started over a year ago.... has anything been done??
[/b]
Yeah! Is anything in the works? :shrug:

[Debby]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ReFleX @ Oct 22 2005, 03:07 PM) 15846

Oops just noticed this topic started over a year ago.... has anything been done??
[/b]
Yeah! Is anything in the works? :shrug:
[/b][/quote]


Sure, there is "something" in the works! ;)

[DonULFonso]

Hm, but if it should be a flight-controller, please make it a true replica this time, not just copy it more or less (which usually ends up with sometheing rather less :rolleyes: ). Don&#39;t get me wrong, the FS is good - but the real deal is better, and so many people went with Guillemot&#39;s HOTAS Cougar, especially after they had taken a look at the PT ;) . They took the plunge of having to face a complete lack of support etc. pp, as the price for a truly ergonomic controller. Had there been any alternative, well, the Cougar community is not that happy with the way they&#39;re treated (read: ignored) by Guillemot, you know:


Post no.3 in this thread (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=95329):

The community understands what the Cougar problems are and have come up with some brilliant solutions to address them. We are more interested in solutions and flying with our fabulous controllers than taking up a crusade against TM/Guillemot on principle.

CH should take heed of this community and recognise it for what it is - not loyalty to TM/Guillemot but a craving for realistic flight hardware to sim with. If CH produced a controller similar in look and feel to the Cougar, we would all buy it. There are no fanbois here.[/b]

Supposed some company :D would release a replica of the F-15&#39;s or F-18&#39;s controllers - stick and throttle, but especially the throttle - well ;) , there you go... and yes, I am absolutely sure of this - there have been rumours about such handles for the HOTAS Cougar in the past, and I&#39;ve seen how the community jumped at &#39;em :drool: !

[MichaelCHProd]

Always listening and yes we are doing :locked:

[531_Ghost]

http://www.valleyadvocate.com/binary/38346-273-1/world-2039.jpeg

[ReFleX]

Ulf&#39;s got it right.. If&#39;n you were to put out more realistic controllers I would believe alot of Cougar owners might just give up on them and roll on over..

I for one don&#39;t use CH anymore... for this reason alone. I&#39;d rather spend $500 bucks make&#39;n my kitty purr like no other then spend $300 or so on something thats sorta like the real thing.. And the, theres is plastic mine is metal don&#39;t really mean squat if&#39;n they were replica&#39;s or really really close to the real deal..

just my two cents...

[[667th]_Mavrck]

For a high quality FFB hotas stick I would pay at least 250.00

according to this thread CH is not interested in building one:

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bb...c;f=98;t=007469 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=007469)

The only high quality FFB currently manufactured is the obscure AVB topshot pegasus, which is quite well built.

If CH cannot afford to build their own, perhaps they should find out who is making this stick and outsource production of their own design.

Information: http://www.avbusa.com/avb2003/about.htm#company_facts

Re my own recently purchased FS PT PP setup: I like the precision and the software very much. The stick is slippery and the POV is a stretch for the thumb.

The throttle is excellent.

uhoh7
[/b]

AVB sticks are the gayest looking crap I have ever seen. I will stick with my Suncom F-15E Talon and SFS hotas for now. Its the best looking easiest programming out there. It works fine with Windows XP just set it for 3 axis 4 button and you can still program the buttons onthe fly with the keyboard. The only thing you can&#39;t do is use the dual throttle seperately. NO big deal. I think they need to work on 2 things at CH. An F-15 or F-18 Stick and hotas that is universal. Also a nice MFD which is much needed in the sim community. As for Gamepad crap, go get a playstation and play mario brothers. PC&#39;s are much better and putting in a request for a PC gamepad is just not real. The only alternative I would use is an Xkey pad if I needed it but I don&#39;t at this time.

Now Saiteks X52 is nice and has some fancy gadgets......if you like to look like you are flying a futuristic space ship game. Dude its not realistic looking either. The Cougar Hotas and the Suncom F-15 series sticks are still the only "real" looking sticks that exist until someone puts their heads together and gets us something better. Just my 2 cents. Sorry If I barked too much.
:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :cheers:

[531_Ghost]

So, Mavrick, I take it you voted for the F15/F/A 18 HOTAS?

[DonULFonso]

I for one did, and I know I#m not alone ;) . I only hope that IF this really should become reality, this time it&#39;ll be a TRUE replica with all the bells and whistles of the real deal - No missing buttons or axes, no 4-way instead of 8-way coolies (how they work electrically doesn&#39;t matter, only that you CAN use the corners); no almost-as-if-but-somewhat-close design this time please:huh: - don&#39;t feed the trolls :rolleyes: but give the TM-crowd (ignore my sig, will ya :blush: ) something to think about...

[Revvin]

I for one did, and I know I#m not alone ;) . I only hope that IF this really should become reality, this time it&#39;ll be a TRUE replica with all the bells and whistles of the real deal - No missing buttons or axes, no 4-way instead of 8-way coolies (how they work electrically doesn&#39;t matter, only that you CAN use the corners); no almost-as-if-but-somewhat-close design this time please:huh: - don&#39;t feed the trolls :rolleyes: but give the TM-crowd (ignore my sig, will ya :blush: ) something to think about... [/b]

I&#39;m not sure I see the attraction of 8 way hats but if it&#39;s simple enough to add then why not but personally I hardly ever used them on the Cougar and don&#39;t often use the 8 positions on the Pro Throttle or Fighterstick they are too awkward to use. We really do need to get you a new sig Ulf :D

[Debby]

I&#39;m not sure I see the attraction of 8 way hats but if it&#39;s simple enough to add then why not but personally I hardly ever used them on the Cougar and don&#39;t often use the 8 positions on the Pro Throttle or Fighterstick they are too awkward to use. We really do need to get you a new sig Ulf :D
[/b]


I agree! Ulf, would you like me to send you a CH image? Logo, Fighterstick pic? ;)

[DonULFonso]

Everything you&#39;ve got, especially some nice images I can use once I&#39;ll have converted my first setups ;) .

As for my signature, I&#39;ll change it when I&#39;ve got the feeling that I&#39;m about ready to do so ;) . Right now I&#39;m but a bloody newby - I&#39;ve got a pretty clear idea where I&#39;m going to :D , but I&#39;m taking small steps just right now.

[SUBS17]

I for one did, and I know I#m not alone ;) . I only hope that IF this really should become reality, this time it&#39;ll be a TRUE replica with all the bells and whistles of the real deal - No missing buttons or axes, no 4-way instead of 8-way coolies (how they work electrically doesn&#39;t matter, only that you CAN use the corners); no almost-as-if-but-somewhat-close design this time please:huh: - don&#39;t feed the trolls :rolleyes: but give the TM-crowd (ignore my sig, will ya :blush: ) something to think about...
[/b]

Thats true, the F/A-18 hotas is actually something quite unique from any other hotas in that it incorporates finger lifts to engage afterburners instead of detents like the F-16s hotas. I think the hardest part to create it is to copy the mold as you really need a real one as a template. Split throttles are likely to become more useful now than in the past since there are flight sims such as Lockon and FighterOps(due out late next year) which will use them.
B)

[531_Ghost]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DonULFonso @ Oct 26 2005, 07:33 AM) 15977

I for one did, and I know I#m not alone ;) . I only hope that IF this really should become reality, this time it&#39;ll be a TRUE replica with all the bells and whistles of the real deal - No missing buttons or axes, no 4-way instead of 8-way coolies (how they work electrically doesn&#39;t matter, only that you CAN use the corners); no almost-as-if-but-somewhat-close design this time please:huh: - don&#39;t feed the trolls :rolleyes: but give the TM-crowd (ignore my sig, will ya :blush: ) something to think about...
[/b]

Thats true, the F/A-18 hotas is actually something quite unique from any other hotas in that it incorporates finger lifts to engage afterburners instead of detents like the F-16s hotas. I think the hardest part to create it is to copy the mold as you really need a real one as a template. Split throttles are likely to become more useful now than in the past since there are flight sims such as Lockon and FighterOps(due out late next year) which will use them.
B)
[/b][/quote]

Okay going by that logic, just where the heck would CH Products get a REAL F/A 18 HOTAS? It&#39;s not like you can go out and buy one or anything.
:unsure:

[DonULFonso]

the F/A-18 hotas is actually something quite unique from any other hotas in that it incorporates finger lifts to engage afterburners instead of detents like the F-16s hotas. I think the hardest part to create it is to copy the mold as you really need a real one as a template.[/b]
Oh well, when I was speaking of a "1:1 replica" I actually was referring only to the form, not to gadgets like this. I am well aware of the fact that while it would be neat, such a feature would easily drive the price tag up dramatically, and leave us whining :rolleyes: .

I&#39;d rather see an affordable dual throttle with all of the real deal&#39;s common controls (buttons, switches, coolies, but no finger lifts and such stuff) than a true blue 1:1 replica no one can afford and no one thus would buy. If CH would only sell say half a dozen pieces over just as many years, then no one could expect them to ever venture into this direction again ;) , huh?!


Okay going by that logic, just where the heck would CH Products get a REAL F/A 18 HOTAS? It&#39;s not like you can go out and buy one or anything.[/b]
ebay :rolleyes: ? (You might have to buy a complete fighter, tho&#39;, and hope the controllers are included :D ...)

Seriously, see above.

[531_Ghost]

Oh don&#39;t misunderstand Ulf, and others. I&#39;m all for the "real deal", finger pulls and all! But get a REAL F/A 18 HOTAS from eBay? Heh, good luck! Even museums can&#39;t get them! Nor can Boeing release them. ;)

[Debby]

Surely, a JOYSTICK manufacturer could obtain the unobtainable ?!?!?! Don&#39;t they know who we are ?!?!?!?! ;)

[531_Ghost]

Debby? You know something I don&#39;t? :D

[Debby]

Naw, just being facetious! :lol:

[SUBS17]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SUBS17 @ Oct 26 2005, 01:09 AM) 15989

the F/A-18 hotas is actually something quite unique from any other hotas in that it incorporates finger lifts to engage afterburners instead of detents like the F-16s hotas. I think the hardest part to create it is to copy the mold as you really need a real one as a template.[/b]
Oh well, when I was speaking of a "1:1 replica" I actually was referring only to the form, not to gadgets like this. I am well aware of the fact that while it would be neat, such a feature would easily drive the price tag up dramatically, and leave us whining :rolleyes: .

I&#39;d rather see an affordable dual throttle with all of the real deal&#39;s common controls (buttons, switches, coolies, but no finger lifts and such stuff) than a true blue 1:1 replica no one can afford and no one thus would buy. If CH would only sell say half a dozen pieces over just as many years, then no one could expect them to ever venture into this direction again ;) , huh?!


Okay going by that logic, just where the heck would CH Products get a REAL F/A 18 HOTAS? It&#39;s not like you can go out and buy one or anything.[/b]
ebay :rolleyes: ? (You might have to buy a complete fighter, tho&#39;, and hope the controllers are included :D ...)

Seriously, see above.
[/b][/quote]


Its not too difficult to make finger lifts, all they are is a couple of switches. Too make a hornet hotas they&#39;d have to approach a hornet squadron or the makers of the actual setup. I think the real one costs thousands of dollars. But basically all thats required is the actual mold, hirevsims claimed to have them might have to ask them where they got the original from. They used to use thrustmaster cougar base and have removable stick and throttle which are interchangeable. From what I read it would take less than a day to make a whole hotas off 1 mold of any original F18/15/A10 etc. My preference would be a desktop setup that can be upgraded to a floor mount.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/SUBS17/throt9ba.jpg

[531_Ghost]

So lemme get this straight, you all want sumpthin&#39; that looks like this?:

[Debby]

You guys are pretty handy...build it yourself!! :evil: :rofl:

[SUBS17]

That might happen if no one sells any :D

[SUBS17]

Just a note, the above information was based on what I read on Frugals and also hirevsims website. I have yet to ever see a stick made by them although I think that the poster on Frugals intentions was to show us what we&#39;ll never have.(because of a incident a while back where they got angry with a thread on Frugals). So hopefully you guys at CH think about the Hornet, even just the mold and I&#39;d be happy.
cheers
Subs

[531_Ghost]

SUBS17, I&#39;ve actually spoke to Hirevsimulations. Quite the interrestring conversation to say the least. He&#39;s not at ALL interrested in selling to the public in any way shape or form. He sits on a pretty high horse (IMO). The thread you speak of is here (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=66962&highlight=Hirev) for those of you that are interrested.

[Revvin]

I think there were a few threads before that one that led to the decision to never sell to the public.

[Debby]

Yes, I remember some pretty heated discussions way back when...

[531_Ghost]

Yeah, there were a few...

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...highlight=Hirev (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=22044&highlight=Hirev)

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...highlight=Hirev (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=73514&highlight=Hirev)

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...highlight=Hirev (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=66962&highlight=Hirev)

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...highlight=Hirev (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=59194&highlight=Hirev)

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...highlight=Hirev (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=60235&highlight=Hirev)

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...highlight=Hirev (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=60113&highlight=Hirev)

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...highlight=Hirev (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=51549&highlight=Hirev)

:blink:

[Trident]

Oh well, when I was speaking of a "1:1 replica" I actually was referring only to the form, not to gadgets like this. I am well aware of the fact that while it would be neat, such a feature would easily drive the price tag up dramatically, and leave us whining :rolleyes: .

I&#39;d rather see an affordable dual throttle with all of the real deal&#39;s common controls (buttons, switches, coolies, but no finger lifts and such stuff) than a true blue 1:1 replica no one can afford and no one thus would buy. If CH would only sell say half a dozen pieces over just as many years, then no one could expect them to ever venture into this direction again ;) , huh?![/b]

Agree, I&#39;d prefer simple detents aswell. Somehow I think fingerlifts would make the throttle too &#39;Hornet-specific&#39; (if that makes sense :wacko: ) - most people will be flying all sorts of aircraft with it. Not to mention the price, if this is indeed more expensive. I do like the Hornet throttle better than the F-15 one though, it looks a bit more ergonomic (I&#39;d certainly be fine with either model however, incase the Hornet info is too hard to come by).

One thing which I&#39;m curious about, what are CH Products&#39; expectations from this poll? How many people will need to vote for them to take action and/or how clear does the advantage for the winning product need to be? Just wodering where we&#39;re at with this situation ;)

[Revvin]

Originally posted by Revvin
I don&#39;t care if it comes from TM or Joe Bloggs working in his garden shed if it means I can maintain my Cougar for years to come thats just fine by me.

LOL from that first link, ah I was young and foolish once too :D

That last link was the one I had in mind though.

[Corsair8X]

[quote]
Agree, I&#39;d prefer simple detents aswell. Somehow I think fingerlifts would make the throttle too &#39;Hornet-specific&#39; (if that makes sense :wacko: ) - most people will be flying all sorts of aircraft with it. Not to mention the price, if this is indeed more expensive. I do like the Hornet throttle better than the F-15 one though, it looks a bit more ergonomic (I&#39;d certainly be fine with either model however, incase the Hornet info is too hard to come by).

Personally I feel that an F-15-style throttle is just as ergonomic with the additional plus of having even more controls which means even more programming options. I&#39;m still not even sure that a split throttle is even necessary, just a re-work of the current pro-throttle to make it more realistic. No more flying-potatoe design, and make it a rocker as opposed to a slider. Put a wheel on the other end for antenna elevation and have all that squeezed into a more realistic handle.

It it wasn&#39;t for a lack of handyman and electronic skills I&#39;d find an old suncom F-15 throttle, gut a Pro-throttle and try to do the job myself.

[Trident]

As I said, I&#39;m not about to be picky if CH makes a F-15-throttle ;) and I agree that arcing throttle movement is a must.

But by all means, a split throttle is necessary! Look at the sims that still have on-going development, about the only one that would NOT put a dual throttle to use is F4AF. LOMAC (twin engine jets exclusively there!), FighterOps, Pacific Fighters/Il2-series, X-Plane and MSFS (although the Throttle Quadrant is adequate for the last three) all have the option for independant engine control (i.e. it is already there today, or planned to be in the case of FO).

[DonULFonso]

And don&#39;t forget that we could use such a dual throttle as a standard single throttle as well ;) in those sims that don&#39;t feature dual engines...

[SUBS17]

How detailed would the hornet split throttle be and is CH considering doing the stick as well?

[fatb0y60]

Okay going by that logic, just where the heck would CH Products get a REAL F/A 18 HOTAS? It&#39;s not like you can go out and buy one or anything.
:unsure:
[/b]

I am researching the F/A 18 pit so i can build it, and the lack of HOTAS is one major problem...I have decided to build the full on centre stick and use the Suncom talon handle because it is close enough however the throttle just isnt that close...im my research I have found 1 very good technical drawing which i think anlong with pics is ample enough info to create a mold or have it CNC milled etc....my original plan wa to do this but if CH do it I dont need to!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/fatb0y60/f18nk_6.jpg

Finger lifts are only on the SUPER HORNET throttle, the &#39;original&#39; hornets have detents...

there are a few websites i found of companies who make the throttle and stick handels with a few google searches... http://www.mason-electric.com/products/con..._grips/f-18.stm (http://www.mason-electric.com/products/control_grips/f-18.stm) is one, who sell the real deal to the military/aircraft manufacturer. I should think to buy these however would cost you an arm and a leg or two...

they have a catalogue with very precise and detailed engineering drawing of the grips...

But I do stress...IF you do it, do it right! please dont make a half assed attempt, make a full on replica! It doesnt necessarily mean high cost :) ( i mean the throttle the stick like above would be way out of cost limits to do properly and I doubt ave joe want one of those)

[Corsair8X]

But I do stress...IF you do it, do it right! please dont make a half assed attempt, make a full on replica! It doesnt necessarily mean high cost :) ( i mean the throttle the stick like above would be way out of cost limits to do properly and I doubt ave joe want one of those)
[/b]

I want to disagree only slightly. If they do an exact replica of it (or the F-15 for that matter) we will lose some functionality. Both throttles feature one (only 1) 4-way type switch, actually a cursor control. The rest of the switches are only 2-way (two cardinal directions with some being momentary contact versions and others being hold switches). This will really cut down on the number of functions that could be programmed in.

Somehow these switches would have to be made into 4-way hats or this thing will end up being as useless as the ****** ****** TQS for sheer number of things that can be put in. Sure, the TQS looks nice on a desk, and sure it&#39;s really accurate, but that works against it IMO.

With all 4-ways, a person such as yourself could still just utilize two cardinal directions for true accuracy but someone such as myself can take advantage of all 4 cardinal directions for true programmability. It&#39;s all about options.

[ruggbutt]

I don&#39;t have a problem w/not having an exact replica. The split throttle should have the same programability/functionality of the Pro Throttle.

[BigBoy]

The F15/F18 split throttle sounds good to me. Exact replica? Not if it eliminates any of the flexible functionality we currently have. Now, if it were designed with a mechanism to allow the 2 shafts to solidly lock together so it could function nicely (ergonomically well) in a single throttle arrangement as well, that would provide good value for dollar. Add a bank of say 6, 3 position toggle type swithes to the base for additional keystroke programing (see Ghost&#39;s tour de force throttle), well.... "smells like...Victory". :yahoo:

[fatb0y60]

I want to disagree only slightly. If they do an exact replica of it (or the F-15 for that matter) we will lose some functionality. Both throttles feature one (only 1) 4-way type switch, actually a cursor control. The rest of the switches are only 2-way (two cardinal directions with some being momentary contact versions and others being hold switches). This will really cut down on the number of functions that could be programmed in.[/b]

Actually, The hornet throttle yes has only 1 4-way switch, however... at least 2 of those "2-way" (and this is from memory please dont yell at me if this is wrong!" Are in fact 3-way switches...However in the real thing on those switches the 3ird direction isnt used or is only to turn off that system... OH wait a second...I do think there is also a 4-way switch on the right grip (making 2) of the hornet throttle...The very top one on the side. Its in the NATOPS manual, should be seen on the pics posted on the previous page (or the one before that not sure) so It does have more than 1 4 way switch...

The F-15E throttle has 2 4-way switches....But PLEASE DO THE HORNET! theres already a F-15 throttle...


HERS AN IDEA...DO BOTH!!!!!! lol

[Corsair8X]

Actually, The hornet throttle yes has only 1 4-way switch, however... at least 2 of those "2-way" (and this is from memory please dont yell at me if this is wrong!" Are in fact 3-way switches...However in the real thing on those switches the 3ird direction isnt used or is only to turn off that system... OH wait a second...I do think there is also a 4-way switch on the right grip (making 2) of the hornet throttle...The very top one on the side. Its in the NATOPS manual, should be seen on the pics posted on the previous page (or the one before that not sure) so It does have more than 1 4 way switch...

The F-15E throttle has 2 4-way switches....But PLEASE DO THE HORNET! theres already a F-15 throttle...
[/b]

Para 1: This is really no different than a press/release code or something that could be accomplished through CMS. However, the same thing could be done with a hat as well. So regardless of whether you call it a two-way or a three-way switch, it does not negate the fact that a hat will have a great deal more capability associated with it. By your description then the typical hat could really be called a 6-way switch then. Forward-back-middle as you describe, and then top-bottom-middle. There is another thread now where I lay out the number of switches for the throttles in question.


CURRENT CHPRO
- 3 four-way hats
- 1 eight-way hat
- 1 mouse control "hat"
- 4 buttons (1 being a mode shifting button)

Now looking at the contenders (keeping in mind that each 2-way slider should actually be moddeled as at least a four-way hat or there is will be fewer options to program for. I will also break the numbers down based on each side of the throttle handle to help form a picture in a person&#39;s mind.

F/A-18 THROTTLE
Front:
- 1 hat -potential mouse control- (target designator control)
- 2 buttons (apc eng/diseng and NTCR/FLIR FOV)
- 1 rotary (antenna elevation)
Inboard Side
- 3 two-way sliders -potential four-way hats- (chaff/flare, comm switch, speedbrake)
- 1 button -hopefully another hat not a button- (function unsure)
Outboard Side
- 1 rocker switch (lights)

F-15E THROTTLE
Front
- 1 four-way hat (seq. point, NCTR, IFF, Missile Borsight)
- 1 hat -potentialy mouse control- (target designator control)
- 1 button (laser control)
Inboard Side
- 4 two-way sliders -potential four-way hats- (comm switch, speedbrake, undesignate, weapon mode)
Outboard Side
- 1 rotary (antenna elevation)
- 1 rocker switch (counter-measures dispenser)

So let&#39;s total them up in just basic positions (press potentials):

CURRENT PRO THROTTLE
24 basic presses plus 1 mouse control (4x3 hats and 8x1 hat and 1x4 buttons)

F/A-18
17 basic presses plus 1 mouse control plus 1 rotary
(4x3 hats and 1x3 buttons and 2x1 rocker)

F-15
23 basic presses plus 1 mouse control plus 1 rotary
(4x5 hats and 1 button and 2x1 rocker)[/b]

Para 2: There is already an F-15 throttle by a now defunct company that would not harness the power of CH&#39;s interface. Technically there is already an F/A-18 throttle out there as well. You can find it right here from Hi-Rev sims (http://hirevsims.com/homepage/1products/1fltcntls/01f18/dsktop/f18dtstkthr.htm). My appologies to CH for this "plug" but with TM guts there is simply no way that it can compete with your stuff. It&#39;s not about who&#39;s produced what unit. It&#39;s whether or not CH has produced it or not.

[DonULFonso]

Technically there is already an F/A-18 throttle out there as well. You can find it right here from Hi-Rev sims (http://hirevsims.com/homepage/1products/1fltcntls/01f18/dsktop/f18dtstkthr.htm). My appologies to CH for this "plug" but with TM guts there is simply no way that it can compete with your stuff. It&#39;s not about who&#39;s produced what unit. It&#39;s whether or not CH has produced it or not.[/b]
But there&#39;s no way HiRev would ever serve home-users, you know, so whether they&#39;ve made it or not is of a rather theoretical interest only.

But I fully agree with the last quoted sentence of yours: the main point of interest is whether or not CH offers such a controller. Then we&#39;d have an up-to-date solution, with up-to-date software (the CM) and (better-than-just-)up-to-date support. The competitor(s) don&#39;t.

[Corsair8X]

But there&#39;s no way HiRev would ever serve home-users, you know, so whether they&#39;ve made it or not is of a rather theoretical interest only.[/b]

And best of luck finding a working Suncom system outside of E-Bay. I just tried in a limited manner while writing this post with no success. So the fact that an F-15 throttle has already been produced is of theoretical interest as well.

As you have mentioned, we are all CH disciples. You and I in particular are very die-hard converts. It is irrelevant who made what in the past or even in the future for that matter. If it&#39;s not CH, I&#39;m not interested. With CH, I have a complete system (four items thus far for me) beneath an umbrella of a very capable and very powerful programming environment.

[DonULFonso]

Hear, hear!

[ruggbutt]

With CH, I have a complete system (four items thus far for me) beneath an umbrella of a very capable and very powerful programming environment.
[/b]
And Bob is always thinking of ways to improve the software. The jump in ease of use from 3.6 to 4.0 is amazing. And alot of the new stuff came from users asking for it. I really, really love the keychecker. I used to use notepad but the CTL and ALT keys don&#39;t show up there. I had to troubleshoot a profile I made for a buddy at our LAN party yesterday, and the keychecker was responsible for me being able to figure out what the problem was.

[Trident]

So, what&#39;s the latest on this issue? Support for the split throttle is clear throughout each of the three polls to date :)

[Debby]

The latest on this is...THANK YOU to everyone who has voted. We have a better understanding now on the wants and needs of our consumers.

Market research is the first step to new product R&D.

We appreciate everyones feedback and will keep you posted on any new developements!

[Revvin]

OK if everyone is satisfied I&#39;ll lock this thread as the poll has now run it&#39;s course. Thanks to all who participated