Lost at Sea

[dancd]

Hi Fellows.
I happen to be just an old fellow who cannot get off the ground literally
with my CH Control Manager. I have a Yoke, Pedals, and just aquired Fighter Stick My interest is could there be in existance a Step by Step, Lead by the hand.
simple instructions for producing a map for my flight sims. So far my attempts have been completely negative. I have printed the complete manual which has been heavy on ink, but still cannot find my way. I cannot seem to be able to find
a simple way of assigning keystrokes to buttons, and being able to observe the
actions executed. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Regards, Danny

[Revvin]

Check out Spidey's guide at his site here (http://chmaps-spidey.freeservers.com/maps.html). It's for an older version of Control Manager but the basics are still the same, that should get you up and running in no time. If you need any more help post away!

[Spidey]

Yeah its old but good for beginners.

I promise i will finish my CM3 guide some time.

Actually, I will finish it as soon as CH tells me they are making a game pad. :lol:

[MichaelCHProd]

BRIGAND :angry:

[Firefox]

Hmm Havnt heard that term (BRIGAND) in a while. Only my version of it Im sure is much different. So whats your discription ???? Ive never heard of it used in any other conjunction other than what I used it for and it relates to Electronic Warfare its a :censored: and we used it for :censored:



But to his first point, Im totally lost too, I was able to keystroke program my sticks, but I really hated doing it. I wish WWIIOL would do native mode better.

[Revvin]

I hate using ingame keymappers, they all work differently, all use a different file format or some can't even be backed up if you want to re-install a game. Have you tried using the .cmc files from the forums near the bottom of the list? I've done one for WWII Online. A .cmc file works much like the old TM two part file format. The .map file is the file which tells Control Manager where each command is on the HOTAS while the .cms file contains any cms scripting for more complex controls and the .cmc file holds all the commands for a game, each command given a name, for instance a few lines from my WWIIOnline.cmc read:

Left_Wheel_Brake z
Right_Wheel_Brake x
Lock_Tail_Wheel /
Landing_Gear g
Canopy_Control o
Bomb_Doors d
[/b]
To use a .cmc file or create you own open up a profile or start a new one then when you have the joystick mapping screen infront of you click on the 'Program Settings' tab (as in the picture attached) Click on the box down in the bottom right that says 'Command File' and it will open up a browser window to look for an existing file in your C:\Program Files\CH\Control Manager\Maps directory (if you've downloaded one from this site for instance) or you can create a new file from scratch by entering a new filename. Once you've done that then you can look a the .cmc file by clicking on the 'CM Editor' button (8th button from the left in the top menu) then click on the 'Command File (CMC)' tab to view the commands or input new ones. You can notate your .cmc files (to put in headings etc) by starting a line with three forward slashes then type what you want, the text will appear green meaning it is being treated as a note or heading. When inputting commands yo will notice the text is a light blue colour, type your command name in then leave a space then input the key you want the command to execute (see the example from my WWIIOnline.cmc above) you will see the key you input on the end of the command name appears as red. If you want to break up commands so it's not one line of gibberish use and underscore as I have above. Once you have your .cmc file you can go to your joystick and throttle and instead of entering the key press for each button you now right click and select 'Insert Command' in the pop up meu and a list of commands from your .cmc file will appear in a small pop up window, just click on a command in the list and it gets assigned to the button you selected.

[Firefox]

Oh man, Then I could do a Map for Targetware and if I get back into WBIII I could do one for that, and make all the commands for my buttons to be the same for every game (just use THEIR Key) WOOTNESS.

No two questions

1. I would like to have my trim keys click once if I tap it and multi click if I hold it, is that doable.

2. I might modify your bomb drop on the Havoc/DB7/blen IV as it is much better to do 2 bombs rather than 1. Trick is, if you do that then it mucks up Tanks and fighters with bombs (Bell 14A) and I would hate to have to switch maps per unit.


Thanks Rev. Im learning

[Bob Church]

>> 1. I would like to have my trim keys click once if I tap it and multi click if I hold it, is that doable. <<

If you mean keystrokes, they basically respond just like the keyboard. The first character comes along, there's a bit of a delay, and then the repeats start. It's not something that's really under the control of the CM though. With HID stuff, the key only goes down and comes up, there are no intermediate repeating characters actually generated. Windows itself fakes them while the key is down. Anyway, if you can control the 1-click/multiple-click thing with the keyboard okay, you shouldn't have any trouble with the CM. The button will act pretty much the same way. If you do, come on back with the problem. I'm sure it can be worked out.

>> 2. I might modify your bomb drop on the Havoc/DB7/blen IV as it is much better to do 2 bombs rather than 1. Trick is, if you do that then it mucks up Tanks and fighters with bombs (Bell 14A) and I would hate to have to switch maps per unit. <<

If you're not using the hardware Mode Switch on either your FighterStick or ProThrottle, it sounds like the ideal thing to do with sub-modes in CM 3. You could easily set up a script so that map worked one way when the red LED was on, another when the yellow was on, a third when the green was on, then just let that select the proper operation for the sections of the map that are aircraft-specific. It wouldn't require a whole mode shift that way, you'd still have them for whatever you do with them now, or avoid a multi-mode map altogther. You'd just have to click the microstick or the FighterStick buttonbefore you started to fly the thing.

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[Revvin]

You'll find .cmc files for Warbirds III, WWII Online, Targetware and Aces High and many more in the cmc forums so half the work is done for you. The good thing about this file format is you can edit them in notepad if you wished and as most games come with wither a readme in Word or plain text you can cut and paste the whole command list into the .cmc file and just make a few edits such as making sure there are no spaces in command names etc and removing the usual = sign, certainly quicker than typing it all in yourself. For instance for my Targetware .cmc file I made the main list from the input.txt file. Of course I had to remove the equals sign and make sure combinations such as 'CTRL+1' was changed to the key format Control Manager recognises eg 'CTL 1' but the bulk of the work was done.

As for the WWII Online bomb drop from pilot position why not have them assigned to a hat switch and have multiple bombs per hat position, you could cut and paste the following into my existing WWIIOnline.cmc that you found in that profile you downloaded:

Fire_SecondaryX2_From_Pilot_Position 2 d b b d 1
Fire_SecondaryX3_From_Pilot_Position 2 d b b b d 1
Fire_SecondaryX4_From_Pilot_Position 2 d b b b b d 1

Hell if you wanted to go the whole hog you could set each hat to have a shifted mode and have up to eight bombs dropped at once. As Bob pointed out you could set up a profile to make use of the modes function of your HOTAS, it's a bit like the stickset feature that was used in Warbirds, Aces High etc. I really think by using the ingame keymappers you are stiffling the amazing programmability of these sticks, simple macro's like the dropping a bomb from the pilot position macro mentioned about or using CMS to do things like a fail safe ejection system (example can be found in the CMC forum) where you need to hold down a combination of joystick buttons to initiate an ejection sequence. Or a toggle button setup in CMS so pressing say joystick button 3 once would send you to crew position 2, press it again to go to crew position 3 etc etc.

[MichaelCHProd]

Just look at the support.... this forum KICKS A$$. :w00t:

Brigand -
A bandit, usually a member of a gang or group of bandits.

That holds true if you are a highwayman or a IFF'd MiG I suppose. B)

[Firefox]

Rev, worked like a champ, I rearranged the keys easy and Now have the perfect set up. I used the Bullet switch as my drop 2 bombs from pilots and the red for shoot secondaries (reason is the DB7 has 2nd set of MG in nose so I can fire all 4 now (I couldnt before becuase I would drop my bombs (had jettison set to that in old CH stick )

Now if I could get the trim switch to continue trim when I hold the key down Ill be a happy camper.

What I want is quick keypress get 1 trim press, Hold the key and it continues to hit the trim key giving me faster trim :D


Othter thing Im going to figure out is how to get the Mini joy as a Micro gun slew (rather than Big joy and hamming the tank guns all over).

[dancd]

Gentlemen,
What an exceptional response to my Lost at Sea subject concerning mapping with the CH Control Manager. I am extremely grateful to all the members who responded. When I have had time to digest it all, I am sure I shall be able to find the answers that I want Kind regards, Danny

[Revvin]

Spidey's guide is a great starting point, if you need any more help don't hesitate to post <s>

Firefox> How have you got the trim keys set up in WWIIOL? mine seem to work as you want if I read your post correctly, to help here's a screenshot of the keyboard setup in WWIIOL:

[Typhoontony]

I feel like a complete dolt :huh: . Like dancd I have printed out the guide from CM3 and read it several times, D/L Spidey's guide and read it as well and still can't program my setup. :( (Fighterstick, Pro Pedals, & Pro Throttle) What is needed for people like me is a simple tutorial with a click by click runthrough to get us started. Also Micheal get that gamepad out so that Spidey will finish his CM3 guide :)

[Revvin]

Any specific problems? post away I'm sure we can help

[Astaroth]

I agree with Typhoontony. I may be a complete idiot, but I can not get my set up to work (Fighterstick and Pro Throttle only).

I have read the walkthru on Spideys site and mapped my controllers to keypresses for Janes USAF. I saved the .map file. I cannot get the CM program to calibrate the controllers correctly and/or the download button is cleared out.

Anyway, I am getting frustrated with the process. I will continue to try to get it working correctly by deleting all usb devices and starting over. If I have any request It would be to update Spideys walkthru for CM 3.0 so all the buttons and topics are up to date (I know he must have a life outside of this forum so thank you Spidey for considering this....)

If anyone has a step by step process for creating my profile or has a USAF one to download that would be great.

I am sure the lightbulb will go on someday for how to program correctly but until then, any help from the experts how ever simple is very much appreciated.

Again, this site and its excellent members is the reason I upgraded to CH Products. So, Thank you all for the help in advance.

[MichaelCHProd]

Here is a base map and I will try to post a CMC file for USAF this week. B)

The map has the controllers combined to work in USAF and I put the rudder on the mini joystick as you have no pedals. If you don't like it just remove the Direct X mode check mark on the X axis....

ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/DX_Mode.jpg


Now it looks like this.....

ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/DX_Mode_Off.jpg

[Firefox]

Rev,
Did that with the key clicks and its now good to go, Hot stuff man. Now I can either bump the trim for those small adjustments or Hold it down and really crank the trim (good for spit in hard turn fight :D)


Alst and Typh, Download one of Revins profiles for the game you play. He has all the commands in there and its easy to bring it up then go to the button you want to change and right click then you get a list of commands. Select the one you want. Hit ok and go on to the next. When your done do file save as and name it what ever. When I get home tonite Ill try and do some screen shots and text to show you the how to.


Im a dolt and a half when it comes to this stuff, but with revs hints and micheals Im getting it, its easy once you have done it a couple times. Now I cant do advanced stuff YET, but he has enough to get you going.


Give it a whirl.

[Astaroth]

:D Thanks for the quick reply. I will try the profile Michael.....Thank you. Firefox, excellent advice. I think I need to spend my time with games that already have profiles created and then edit them to my liking.

Again, many thanks.....

[MichaelCHProd]

No problem. I will try and hustle the UASF CMC file tonight.

[Typhoontony]

Like Astaroth I made a map for Cmanche 4 I know, I kow it's an arcade game but someone gave it to me and I though it would be an easy start as there are not a lot of controls to map. Well nothing, I don't have a clue as to what I am doing wrong and it is starting to frustrate me. I can plan and build very convoluted spreadsheets in excel, I also run an electrical distribution system for a medium sized city on a day to day basis, but I seemed to have run into some sort of mental block with CM3 :(

Tony

[MichaelCHProd]

Which controllers do you have?

Keep in ind that C 4 does not see the Z axis even though every other game does. C 4 wants your Z axis to call itself Slider 1 or Slider 0.

[Typhoontony]

My controllers are Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, & Pro Pedals, all USB
P4 2.4, 1 GB Ram, Radeon 9800 Pro, SB Live.

Tony

[MichaelCHProd]

Go and get the C4 cmc file from the Helo CMC Section (http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?showforum=20)

Then progam your buttons.

[MichaelCHProd]

The USAF CMC is up. Go and get it in the CMC section....


http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=183

[Astaroth]

Thank you very much Michael. Talk about going above and beyond......The excitement is now back!

Tell me if this correct....You load the command file (.cmc) and then go to each button presses edit box, right click, and select the command that you want for that button press.


Is this correct??


The next dumb question comes from the shift button. How do I set that for each game. Is the shift button on the controller always the same. What do most people use for the shift button. How do I program it...????

Thanks very much to Michael for your help and to all who contributed to this post.

[Typhoontony]

Thanks Micheal I'll try when I get home later on tonight still at work for a few more hrs yet

Tony

[Revvin]

I tend to use the pinkie button near the base of the joystick (button 4) but I know some like to use button 3 which is on the top side of the joystick (on the Fighterstick, button 5 on the Combatstick). You can set whatever button you want to be the shift button, its a tick box at the top of the button properties window as I've illustrated in the attached image.

[MichaelCHProd]

You are correct on the usage of the CMC files.

Don't think of "Shift button" but instead try to think of it as the "Shift Function". This is not the shift key on your keyboard. This is a type of mode for your controllers.

With a "mode switch" you are looking at a toggle, i.e. press it once and you are looking at new commands for those buttons (and axis B) ) that you have programmed in other modes.

With the "shift function" you are looking at a momentary toggle, i.e. while you are holding it down you will get different commands on those buttons that you have programmed something for in the "Shifted Action" "Press" and "Release" boxes. When you release the "shift function" everything goes back to the "Normal Action".

This allows you to change buttons just for a moment with out having to toggle through modes to get back to what you need.

Most people prefer to use the number 4 button on the Combatstick and Fighterstick and button 1 on the Flight Sim Yoke and Flight Sim Yoke LE.

You do not need to "set it for each game" so to speak you simply place a check mark in the "Shift Button".....

ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/Shift.jpg

This will make this button the "Shift Function" for this map. It is best not to assign anything else to the "Shift Function" button as you do not want another command being sent when you are trying to shift your commands.


Hope this helped. :cheers:

[Revvin]

LOL race ya Michael! :D

[MichaelCHProd]

That will teach me to go on smoke break. :lol:

[vortexas]

ok ,i need help.
heres what i have..ch568combat stick,pro throttl, pro peddles,all usb.,CH control mgr. 3.0.
im running win xp,had to add a pci/usb card.

i fly Aces High and Lo-Mac(mainly Aces)

problem, i finally figured out how to get a file,open it, download it to game. my friend in AH gave me his and i tried downloading one here and at spidys.
when i start the game the devices are showed but when i go to fly they barely work. am i missing a step somewhere or do i need to transfer something to the settings file in AH? i havent even tried lo-mac yet,benn stuck on this for a week now.
i have very little computer experience so i to need very simple instructions.im not even gonna try and createa map myself.
i have started printing out the help file that came with CH mgr3,but its gonna take quitea while to figure that out.
i sure appreciate any help.
i like the sticks so far if i can just figure them out.
thanks ,
larry

[MichaelCHProd]

Is it buttons that are not doing what you want or do the axis of the controllers
(568, PT, and PP) not influence the flight controls(Elevator, Aileron, Throttle, and Rudder) in game?

[Revvin]

You can download a Combatstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals setup for Aces High here (http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=133). All you need to do is: Download a profile that you want and extract that to your C:\Program Files\CH Products\Control Manager\Maps directory
Start up Control Manager 3 and click on the 'Load' icon which is the first icon from the left in the top menu in Control Manager 3. Locate the profile you saved (mine is called "AcesHigh_CSPTPP") Click on the 'Download' button which is the ninth button from the left in the top menu and after a few seconds a pop up window will appear to tell you that the download was completed successfully.
The map is now ready for use and downloaded to the stick and throttle so you can close Control Manager 3 at this point and then check your Aces High joystick settings.

Fire up Aces High and either go online or offline, then: Click on the 'Setup' button on the clipboard
Click on the 'Joystick' button that now appears in the top right corner of the clipboard
Click on 'Select Joystick'
My profile has the Combatstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals as a separate device so in the joystick list you will see three devices "CH Control Manager Device 1", "CH Control Manager Device 2" and "CH Control Manager Device 3" The Combatstick is device 1, the Pro Throttle is device 2 and the pedals device 3. Set you controls as: Roll - CH Control Manager Device 1 X Axis
Pitch - CH Control Manager Device 1 Y Axis
Throttle1 - CH Control Manager Device 2 Z Axis
Rudder - CH Control Manager Device 3 Z Axis
Left Brake - CH Control Manager Device 3 X Axis
Right Brake - CH Control Manager Device 3 Y Axis
I've attached my 'stick.cfg' from Aces High, try putting that into your C:\Aces High\settings folder

[vortexas]

what revvin said makes sense. i will try that. the device is showing up ,but the controls are all screwy...i'll push my throttle and the plane will roll.
also the map my friend sent me only uses one device to control all three sticks,everything is programmed through the throttle.but i like the way he has it set up.
i'm going to download the files and try the stuff revvin said.
also i suppose if im using a map then i have to hit the "mapped mode" button as opposed to the "direct mode",correct?
i appreciate the quick response guys,im starting to have some serious withdrawal symptoms...trigger finger twitching uncontrolably.
thanks,
larry

[MichaelCHProd]

You don't have to hit "Mapped Mode" if you have just "Download"ed the map.

"Direct Mode" is going to remove the map from your controllers.

[vortexas]

ok cool, that did it ...setting the axis buttons in AH,
do i have to set them every time i play,or just every time i load a new map?


yeeeha i can fly again!

[Revvin]

No just download the profile you want to use in Control Manager and fly! now you've set your controllers in Aces High it should be saved in that stick.cfg file in the AH game directory

[Timoteos]

Printed out the guide / help manual.
Read / skimmed through it.

Started to panic.

Tried to view / download Spidey's "Guide for the Technically Challenged".
Got the message "document requested could not be found on this server".

Started to assume the fetal position.

Would really appreciate a step by step, hold your hand, all will become clear
guide to CH programming.

Many thanks.

[MichaelCHProd]

one question at a time. What do you want to do?

[Timoteos]

What I would like to get is a step by step example of how to
create a map. Doesn't matter what one. Just so that I can
follow along and figure out what everything does.

[MichaelCHProd]

Then the easiest way would be to use the Map Wizard ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/Postings/CM_wizard.jpg. As it will walk you though making a basic map. Here is a post were I walk you though using the Map Wizard.. http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=228

[Timoteos]

What I want to do is set up maps for some FPS games (apologies,
I promise that I will get into Flight Sims, however my success in
playing them is indicated by my avatar).

So, if I download a FPS map, such as Call of Duty, will the settings for that
game give me a decent handle on setting up the controller for other FPS games?

Thank you for your help.

[MichaelCHProd]

FPS games are a different breed. Some FPS games have joystick support, some have limited joystick support, and others have none. I think that unlike Flight Sims each FPS game will be a very specific map unto itself. Now I have a ton of FPS games at home and the shop. So start a new thread on FPS programming and list the games you want some specific help on.