Hardware Gurus - Help with CH Combatstick problem

[firefly_77]

Hello,

I was hoping to find some help with this very unusual problem. I have exhausted all my resources from all the nice people at the UBI IL2 forum, and at the CH products website and I still do not have a good solution or even an explanation for this problem. You are my last hope.


AN IMPORTANT NOTE HERE IS THAT I HAD THIS STICK WORKING FOR 2 MONTHS IN IL2 and ONE WEEK in IL2/FB ON MY CURRENT WIN XP PC.

ALSO, THE STICK CURRENTLY CALIBRATES AND FUNCTIONS NORMALLY IN IL2 ON MY OLD WIN XP PC.

I ALSO RUN THRUSTMASTER ELITE PEDALS AND THOSE WERE WORKING FINE IN UNISON WITH THE STICK AND CURRENTLY THEY WORK ON MY OLD WIN XP PC ALONG WITH THE STICK.


HERE IS MY PROBLEM: I own a CH Combatstick (gameport) that I have been running successfully in Windows XP for about 2 months. I recently installed IL2 Forgotten Battles and Aces expansion pack and I was able to successfully run the game for about a week. One day recently, after changing some non-joystick settings in IL2/FB setup, I experienced my plane spiraling out of control. When I run the game and go into /Hardware setup/Input all the axes show the green dot in the bottom right corner. This still happen even after calibrating out in Windows XP using the CH products cal program. The roll and pitch trim wheels were centered before calibration and the "use joystick" checkbox is checked in the game setup program.


Here is a list of troubleshooting problems that I have been through:


NOTE: ALL TESTING WAS DONE WITH THE RUDDER PEDALS UNINSTALLED, I AM ONLY TRYING TO GET THE STICK TO WORK BY ITSELF.

1) Recalibrated the joystick from the CH products calibration program that came with the drivers in the chanlg08.exe file from CH products.

2) Deleted/Added the controller and recalibrate

3) Deleted and reinstalled the game (same problem occurs in IL2 & MS FS2002)

4) Deleted controller from Windows, Uninstalled CH drivers from Windows, Reinstalled drivers/added new controller and recalibrated.

5) Swaped another sound card to test the gameport (both cards were SB Live).

6) Uninstalled Video drivers(using Uninstall utility and directions from a knowledgeable user in the IL2 Community) and reinstalled them. Radeon AIW 9800 PRO 128.

7) Uninstalled SB Live drivers and reinstalled.

8) Updated chipset drivers.


SO I CAN CALIBRATE IN WINDOWS, BUT WHEN I GO INTO LOOK AT THE INPUT CONTROLS IN THE GAME, THE CONTROLLERS STILL SHOWS THE GREEN DOT PEGGED IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER FOR BOTH AXES. WINDOWS XP IS NOT HANDING OFF THE CALIBRATION TO THE GAME.


Based on the fact that the controller works just fine on another WIN XP machine, The controller should be fine.


How can I get this joystick to work in the game? Other than turning the trim wheels 90% of the way to one side.

Could this be a system file or registry setting problem?

My last resort is to reinstall Windows XP, but I do not want to do that.


Thanks,

Firefly :wacko:

[MichaelCHProd]

So you are getting dead controller input in both IL-2 and MFS 2002? Have you tried re-installing Direct X?

[firefly_77]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for your reply. From the sound of it, you may be the MIchael that I already spoke to at CH. Maybe some additonal info will help you to help me.

I did try reinstalling DirectX9, but I was unable to figure out how to uninstall it first, so I installed it right over the current version. Can you suggest where I can get a recent copy of DirectX9?

I am experiencing a dead controller in both IL2/FB and MS FS2000 (not 2002 like I mentioned before). When I run these games the plane flies straight until I touch the controllers and then the plane pitches up and spirals to the right. On the outside view I can see the elevator locked in the up position and the ailerons in opposite positions so that the plane rolls over to the right. One note: If I trim the controller (roll 90% to the left and pitch 90% forward) while running the game, I can get the controller to work, until I hookup my pedals which of course have no trim.

firefly

[MichaelCHProd]

You really can't un-install Direct X. Well you can but it's a DOS command called "format".

You can get the latest Direct X from Microsoft....HERE (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=A6DEE0DB-DCCE-43EA-87BB-7C7E1FD1EAA2&displaylang=en)

[firefly_77]

The directX9 reinstall made no difference. Still the same problem.

Any other ideas other than reinstalling Windows?

firefly :(

[BLAZERBRUCE]

firefly_77,

I have had troubles in the past with a game or program messing up windows really bad. You can Repair Windows XP without loosing other data on your hardrive. You can try a windows repair by rebooting the computer with the Windows XP install CD. When the blue menu appears, select install, not repair in the menu. In the following menu, Windows will notify you that there is windows already installed and will ask you if you wish to re-install. Choose this option. Dont re-format the harddrive or delete and add a partition. I also recommend saving all important data on your computer to cd's or diskettes incase Microsoft decideds to mess up lol. Unfortunitly it seems windows XP doesnt like to have DirectX messed with at all, and sometimes a quick glitch can cause havok later on. If you need detailed instructions for each screen to screen in the install menu let me know and I will post a.s.a.p. Re-installing DirectX will only replace files of newer versions or thinks is corrupt.

-Bruce

[firefly_77]

Blazer,

Thanks for the reply.

Since I am at the end of my rope, and I don't want to reformat & reinstall XP (yet), this sounds like a viable option. I think I can work my way through it this weekend. I keep all my important files on my other *data* drive so there is nothing to backup. I just need to be ready to pull my hair out if it doesn't work. I am also curious to just hookup a USB joystick and see if it has the same problem. I suspect it would, but I cannot be sure. Unfortunately I do not have one or know anyone that does.

As for DirectX, I noticed that there is no way to fall back to a later version. If I do, it still thinks I am on the most recent version in the DiagDx.

Firefly :wacko:

[Bob Church]

Just a shot in the dark, but it doesn't cost anything to try. Drop by the Logitech WingmanTeam site, http://wingmanteam.com I think but there's a link on my page. Anyway, pick up a copy of a program called ClrCalib.exe. It's free. Next, go into the Game Controllers applet and "Remove" any analog sticks that are there. Unplug and USB stuff you've got. You want no devices showing in the list of active joysticks. Once you're to that point, run ClrCalib and let it wipe out the Windows calibration data. Windows saves the stuff and if there's Windows calibration data in there it can cause problems with sticks that don't use Windows drivers.

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[firefly_77]

Bob,

Thanks for the suggestion. I gave it a shot and it did not work. I am going to try repairing or reinstalling Windows XP this weekend. This is a bugger of a problem. I suppose it could even be other hardware in my system beyond the gameport, but I won't know until I reinstall windows.

firefly

[MichaelCHProd]

Good Luck, and have fun B)

[BLAZERBRUCE]

As for DirectX, I noticed that there is no way to fall back to a later version. If I do, it still thinks I am on the most recent version in the DiagDx.

Firefly [/b]

DirectX, even though it is part of your system, isn't totaly intergrated into windows XP. Many of the drivers are, but the DiagDx, and all other utilities for DirectX are seperate. If you re-install XP with out a fresh cleanup of the harddrive, the intergrated files which make directX work will be replaced. You may also have an unknown conflict outside of DirectX but should be fixed with a re-install. Unfortunitly you really cant roll-back on DirectX like other devices. I also recommend not using beta versions of directX because they often have more bugs then good code lol.

If you still have problems, check your computer/motherboard manufacture for motherboard updates and sound card updates. If you purchased the computer insted of building it, there may have been drivers loaded at the factory that you dont have on disk. Alot of updates arent included with Microsoft Update because of licencing and just because someone didnt want to send the files to microsoft.

Another option is to set the combat stick to a 3 axis 4 button stick and see if the games reconfigure themselves. Often, games become confused when you change controller options and will defualt internally if a different device is detected. If changing the controller type in windows works, then try loading the combatstick again. I have been playing around with doom III beta and found this to be the best option. Oh yea, anyone wondering there is joystick support in DoomIII :thumbsup:

-Bruce

[firefly_77]

Well I did the Windows reinstall and I am still seeing the same problem. I did get some blue screens (BSOD) and had some sound issues after the reinstall so I went ahead and reinstalled the sound card (SB Live) drivers and crashed a few times again in the process. I finally go them installed and the sound is working fine, but now I am wondering if there may be issues with the sound card and the gameport on the sound card or maybe the PCI slot. This sound card was the one item on my newly built PC that was a carry-over from my last system. I doubt it is the PCI slot since this is a brand new MOBO.
In my original post I did mention that I took a second SB Live card out of another PC that the controller would work with and it made no difference. I also took the SB card that was in this system I put in the other PC and the result was that the controller worked with either SB card on the old PC. This lead me to believe that the problem was not with the gameport, but with a driver or registry setting.
I think I may go purchase an Audigy card and start there since I was getting the blue screens. Also, I need to find a friend with a USB controller so I can see if that works. Last resort, Format and reinstall. It is starting to look like I may have to go that route.
:angry:

firefly

[Sledge]

Only thing I can think of is try putting the SC in another PCI slot...I found in my old system that when my network card and video card shared the same IRQ port it had lots of problems eg./ BSOD and CTD's. I was told that older sound and video cards preferred to have there own IRQ port which was quite easy to do when using Win98SE and ME ie./ simply moving them around the PCI slots until they were different(this fixed my problem when i was running WinME). However, WinXP likes to share IRQ ports which can effect the stability of the system when using older cards. This may all be crap but I was told this a few years ago so the info may not be all that accurate. Give it a go and see what happens. Also, perhaps put your BIOS settings to the Standard/optimised default and give that a try for awhile. Good luck :cheers:

[firefly_77]

Sledge,

Thanks for the reply. This is such a great forum, even though I am defeated by this problem every day, I still get a new suggestion to try every night.

Regarding moving around the sound card, I also checked in the *Device Manager* and the Creative SB Live & Creative Gameport port were listed as having no conflicts, but I will probably try another PCI slot anyway.

I would imagine I should probably delete the Creative items from the *Device Manager*, turn off the PC. Move the card to a new slot, let Windows detect the hardware, reinstall the sound drivers, and then repeat the install of the joystick controller. Does that sound right? :blink:

firefly

[Sledge]

yep..sounds good to me

[Typhoontony]

Firefly:
I beleive there is a program that will remove Direct X from your system. It is called Direct X Buster. I have never tried it myself but I heard that it works. Here is a link

http://www.dxbuster.de/index_e.html

Typhoon

[wildwolf]

I was told that older sound and video cards preferred to have there own IRQ port which was quite easy to do when using Win98SE and ME ie./ simply moving them around the PCI slots until they were different(this fixed my problem when i was running WinME). However, WinXP likes to share IRQ ports which can effect the stability of the system when using older cards.
[/b]

Sound cards still work better if they have their own IRQ. The problem stems from systems having only 15 available IRQ's to pool from, and alot can be eaten up quickly with the newer motherboards.

ie)
9 - APCI (which is usually the culprit for interfering with sound cards...that or 5)
12 - ps/2 mouse
14 - IDE
15 - IDE

What you CAN do to help the problem, is if you do not use any serial ports and if you have a USB printer instead of a parallel printer, you can go into the BIOS of the motherboard and disable both serial ports (IRQ 3 & 4) and the parallel port (IRQ 7). That could allow some other devices which are being forced to share via windows (all flavors) to have their own IRQ.

If you've got a custom made pc (ie not dell, compaq, etc) you can often see the IRQ assignments when the computer boots up...if it goes by too fast to see or moves off before you can absorb all the information, hit the "Pause Break" key at that point...it'll hold the screen there until you hit another key to continue.

The other advice given here..swap the sound card's PCI slot around... is great advice. Some more: Video cards and networks 99.99% of the time will play friendly if they share an IRQ (And..as a matter of fact, I've never had an issue where they haven't played friendly). Often times, the AGP slot, and the PCI card exactly next to it will share an IRQ...so if you have a PCI ethernet card (vs. ethernet onboard the motherboard), then slap it next to the video card..and that could help as well.

However..these would only help you in the event that your problem is IRQ related. Then again..if you aren't using them (those ports...) might as well disable them..only less thing for the OS to worry about, right? :)

[firefly_77]

No luck with reinstalling the sound card in another PCI slot.

BTW, the sound card is the only card I have in my PCI slots, so it is not likely conflicting with anything else.

I think I am going to either buy a cheapo USB controller stick, just to see if it works, or buy an SB Audigy card, to get a more modern sound card and try the gameport on it.

If I end up going USB, I will not need a sound card because I have pretty good onboard sound.

If the USB stick does not work, I will need to scrub my hard drive and do a fresh install of Windows.

As for the DirectX unistall mentioned by *Typhoontony*, it does not mention working in XP, and it only will remove up to directX 8.1. I have directX 9, so it does not look like it will help me.

My whole point here is to keep from buying all new USB controllers, since I have a working stick and pedals, just not with this PC. I really don't want to reinvest in those items, but I am running out of options. :angry:


Thanks again for everyone's suggestions.

Firefly

[firefly_77]

I loaded a USB Nostromo game controller and it seemed to work perfectly. So I can truly say that this problem is gameport related. So unless I want to reformat my hard drive, it looks like I will need to go to USB. I probably should anyway, I just don't like to be forced, especially since I just dropped about $1500 on my new system.

I am starting to look at USB controllers. I found some real good prices on Amazon.com I will probably start with the CH Combatstick and some Pro Pedals and eventually get a throttle. My old CombatStick still works great and it is about 9 years old. Does anybody want to buy some Thrustmaster Elite rudder pedals for gameport? :lol:

Firefly