Pedals: Z-axis rotation

[ThunderBoy]

Hi.
Picking up where I last left you...

I have CH Pedlas Pro USB on my system and they seem to be working fine, showing up in Windows XP in Game Controllers, stuff move as they should when I calibrate.

However, when I use them in games (IL2, LOMAC, racing games), they don´t seem to work as I expect. For instance, when I use the rudders, the plane rolls in IL2. This had me baffled until MichaelCH printed a screenshot from his HOTAS setup in IL2, and i noticed that rudders where assigned to Z-axis. In my setup, rudders are assigned to Z-axis rotation (see screenshot below).

http://www.leijon.net/chpedals_il2.jpg

I have really tried to change this, but nothing seems to work. What am I doing wrong?

(I have been busy with work and my 1-year old, but I just bought a Yoke and am eager to start flying again...)

tia

[JNOV]

Thunderboy:

What is generating the X, Y, and U slider axes that show up in your IL-2 configuration display? Are you using a CH stick and throttle and combining them into a single device with Control Manager?

If not, you probably have a joystick (e.g., MS Sidewinder) with an integrated throttle/slider. If that's the case, DirectX sees your stick and rudder as separate devices. You can see this in the Windows game controllers control panel applet, where it lists the separate devices. The entries in your IL-2 config screen indicate that all four axes are coming from the device listed first in the control panel applet, because an axis coming from the second device would show up with an "ID2" before it in IL-2's listing. So, if your stick, throttle, and rudder are not all part of a single DirectX device, then your IL-2 configuration is not seeing at least one of your devices. (How did you perform your IL-2 axis assignment? Did you just go to the set-up page and move the axes and wait for IL-2 to recognize them, or did you edit a configuration text file?)

Your mentioning that pushing the rudder pedals causes the plane to roll suggests that, perhaps, the X-Axis that shows up in your IL-2 screen is actually being generated by your Pedals. You'll notice when you test or calibrate your pedals that the two toe-brake axes are X and Y, respectively. (When you have control manager combine Pro Pedals, a CH joystick, and a Pro Throttle into a single DirectX device, it by default assigns the toe brake axes to U and V, and assigns X and Y to the two joystick axes.) Perhaps when you rotate your rudder, you're pushing a bit of toe brake, which induces a roll. (Does your joystick (or yoke?) control pitch and roll as you'd expect?) The main problem with this theory is that your Pro Pedals, used alone, could only provide the X, Y, and R (i.e., Z-Rotation) axes; I can't account for the U axis.

Sorry, I know that's more questions than answers, but if you reply with more specific information about which controllers you're using and how you configured IL-2, I may be able to offer a more helpful sugestion.

Best regards,

- JNOV

[MichaelCHProd]

If you look inside of Game Controllers (sometimes called Gaming Options) in the Windows Control Panel what controllers are listed? and in what order?

[ThunderBoy]

Howdy.
Thanks för your reply.

At the moment, I am only using the pedals, trying to get them to work. In Control Panel -> Game Controllers I only have the CH Pedals listed.
However, the reason I bought the pedlas were that I had Saitek X45 and was dissatisfied with the rudder buttons on it. I still have the Saitek drivers on my system and Saitek Magic Mouse/Keyboard are still listed in Computer Management. From what you are saying I guess I could try to remove the Saitek drivers and see if that changes anything...

I´ll get back after trying that tonight.

[JNOV]

Thunderboy:

IL-2 (unlike some games) will happily recognize your CH Pro Peds and your Saitek X45, because IL-2 has no problem with multiple DirectX controllers. Even now with my all-CH setup, I use Control Manager to create multiple DirectX device (i.e., Control Manager Device 1, Control Manager Device 2) and they show up correctly in IL-2's configuration. In fact, I've used a Saitek X35/36 with my Pro Pedals when I sent my Fighterstick in to get checked out.

Come to think of it, though, I was using Dauzheimer's Saitek drivers, because Saitek didn't have any for Windows XP back then. But it would be strange if Saitek's drivers were the spanner in the works. If both your Saitek X45 and your Pro Pedals show up in the control panel -> game controllers app, then when you go into IL-2's control configuration screen, select an axis to configure, and wiggle an axis on either the Pro Pedals or the X45, IL-2 should select it as the assigned axis. If the axis comes from the device listed first in the control panel -> game controllers app, IL-2 will just list its name; if it's the second one listed, IL-2 will add an "ID 2" (or something like that) prefix.

If you were only using the pedals (and no stick) when you said the plane was rolling when you applied rudder, it might have been rolling because you were actually feeding in a bit of X-axis input through the toe brakes (as I noted above) or because the rudder input was inducing roll. I don't want to waste your time telling you something you already know, but just in case IL-2 is your first "realistic" prop sim, you may not know that in a WWII plane (indeed, in any non-flyby-wire plane), the rudder and aileron inputs are coupled. That means, among other things, that when you kick in a bit of rudder, the plane will roll in the direction of the rudder's deflection (this is due to the aerodynamic effect of the rudder causing the wing on the side of the rudder's deflection to travel slower through the air as the plane yaws in that direction than the wing on the other side; thus, the wing on the other side generates greater lift and the plane rolls towards the rudder deflection). Anyway, to make sure that your controllers are doing what you think they're doing, you might just start a mission on the runway, go to an external or chase view (i.e., use F2 for an external view) and watch to see whether the rudder, ailerons, or elevators move in response to your rudder input.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

- JNOV

[MichaelCHProd]

JNOV is on the money. How are things now?

[ThunderBoy]

Hi Guys!
Thanks for taking the time and trying to teach me, I know about IL2 but I don´t mind one bit, I really appreciating you taking valuable flying time to help me out. I´m sorry that I wasted your time though, because I was being a real clutz. Something JNOV wrote made me think and all I can say is, it was all my fault. I´m not telling though, it´s too embarressing... ;)

Once again, thanks! I´m constantly amazed by the knowledge and sharing in this board!

[MichaelCHProd]

It's all good brother :salute: