Rudder Idea

[Tit Head]

How do.

I've just bought a Fighterstick & Throttle Pro but have no rudder pedals.

Is there any way of emulating a rudder with a throttle hat/button/switch for Falcon 4 ???

I can't justify another wedge of cash on something that's not used that much in my game.

Cheers :cheers:

[Bob Church]

Hi Tit Head,

Sure. Easiest way would be just to assign the microstick X axis to be the rudder. If you didn't want to do that, you could use a pair of switches to generate analog values in a script and feed those to the rudder input. They could switch to a fixed position or maybe start at center and move the to the left or right, the deflection dependent on how long you kept the button pressed. You'd need to figure out the best way to recenter it for what you want to use it for, but it wouldn't be a problem.

If' you're interested, I can help you set it up. It's not a lot of work.

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[Tit Head]

Hi Tit Head,

Sure. Easiest way would be just to assign the microstick X axis to be the rudder. If you didn't want to do that, you could use a pair of switches to generate analog values in a script and feed those to the rudder input. They could switch to a fixed position or maybe start at center and move the to the left or right, the deflection dependent on how long you kept the button pressed. You'd need to figure out the best way to recenter it for what you want to use it for, but it wouldn't be a problem.

If' you're interested, I can help you set it up. It's not a lot of work.

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

Thanks Bob, your help would be greatly appreciated.

I've got my stick but awaiting delivery of the throttle at the moment.

I'll be mainly using the setup for AF/RV & OF versions of Falcon. On my old saitek x45 I use the microstick for the radar.

Is it possible to use the small buttons on the throttle as shift buttons to turn the microstick in to a rudder ?

Is there something to read that'll help me understand CH stuff better ?

Cheers,

Tit Head :cheers:

[chshrkt]

Is there something to read that'll help me understand CH stuff better ?

Try this (http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2017).

[El Hefe]

Try this (http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2017).

yeah use that and the help manual that comes with the CH Control Manager

[Tit Head]

Nice one fellas. :beer:

[Bob Church]

Hi Tit Head,

>> Thanks Bob, your help would be greatly appreciated. <<

Your welcome! I'm always glad to help when I can, just ask!

>> Is it possible to use the small buttons on the throttle as shift buttons to turn the microstick in to a rudder ? <<

Absolutely. Could be set as a toggle, a button you held in for rudder, or you could switch to a different mode that enabled the rudder when you needed it. No problem at all.

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[169th_Maverick]

Bob, what would the script be for that? I was thinking a guy could have rudder and zoom on the X/Y and the shift it for the slew TDS.

[Bob Church]

Hi Maverick,

>> Bob, what would the script be for that? I was thinking a guy could have rudder and zoom on the X/Y and the shift it for the slew TDS. <<

It's mainly a matter of feeding the sim with a couple of CMS Controls axes. Then you can use the shift button to select which if them is getting the value from the control, normally you have to set the other to some default value, probably 128 if it needs to be center. Suppose the shift button is js1.b4 and the microstick X axis is js2.a1. You'd use something like CMS.A1 and CMS.A2 to assign to the CM Device and so pass to Falcon. The script would look probably need to look like this:



script
if( js1.b4 ) then
cms.a1 = 128; // set the first CMS axis to the default value
cms.a2 = js2.a1; // copy the ministick to the 2nd CMS axis
else
cms.a1 = js1.a1; // copy the ministick to the first CMS axis
cms.a2 = 128; // set the second CMS axis to the default value
endIf
endScript

Then you'd need to assign Axis 1 in the CMS Controls to the rudders and Axis 2 of the CMS Controls to whatever moves the TDC cursor. The shift button just selects which output the ministick axis gets sent to and which one gets a default value (whatever that needs to be).

Is that what you were looking for?

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[Tit Head]

Bob,

I'll get back to you back end of next week if that's alright.
Hopefully I'll have my throttle by then and can get cracking.
I suppose I need to decide what I want and where I want it before worrying about programming, it looks very complicated btw.

Tit Head :MultipleBeers:

[Bob Church]

Hi Tit Head,

It can be complicated, but the script itself can just be cut from the post and pasted into the editor. Mostly you have to add the CMS Controls and open the CM Editor, couple of button pushes and a cut and paste. What's actually going on is probably not obvious if you haven't done any programming, but it should work just fine. When you get you're throttle, I'll walk you through it. Not to worry. :)

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[Tit Head]

Hi Tit Head,

It can be complicated, but the script itself can just be cut from the post and pasted into the editor. Mostly you have to add the CMS Controls and open the CM Editor, couple of button pushes and a cut and paste. What's actually going on is probably not obvious if you haven't done any programming, but it should work just fine. When you get you're throttle, I'll walk you through it. Not to worry. :)

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

Cheers Mate, have a good Sunday. :joystick::cheers:

[Tit Head]

Bob,

It's arrived :salute:

I've been looking at Profiles and the Rouge one looks 99% ideal for what I need:

http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2318

Using what's already there, is it still possible to turn the Radar Cursors in to a Rudder axis by holding button 2 on the throttle for say 1.5 seconds or summat, would I need a small deadzone ?, will the up & down axis interfere with left & right ????

Also, can the joystick trigger be used for wheel brakes as well as for firing the cannon ? i.e. the keypress would be Space & K. So Cannon would only fire with weight off the wheels (with master arm on), but only brakes would 'fire' with weight on the wheels ???

I still don't fully understand how the Rouge profile works (where are the shift buttons ???, TMS changing function ???), but it looks very impressive and seems to have everything I require and a bit more.

Cheers, Tit Head :cheers:

[Bob Church]

Hi Tit Head,

>> It's arrived <<

Great!

>> I've been looking at Profiles and the Rouge one looks 99% ideal for what I need:

http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2318

Using what's already there, is it still possible to turn the Radar Cursors in to a Rudder axis by holding button 2 on the throttle for say 1.5 seconds or summat, <<

Yes. You need to figure out how you want to make the switch to rudders and then the switch back. You could use the timing like you suggest, or use a button that maybe set Radar Cursor if you clicked it normally and Rudders if you held the shift button and clicked it. Or you could set it up so one button toggled between the two. Click it once and it goes to rudders, again and it goes back to Radar Cursor, again and it's back to rudders. Figure out what you think would be the best and let me know. It can be changed if you don't like the result, it's really just a matter of defining what controls the switch, the rest of the logic you'd need wouldn't change.

>> would I need a small deadzone ?, <<

Probably. The ministick has a relatively wide center zone because it's so small and you want the deadzone to cover that so that it always comes back to dead center. You'll probably need it for the radar cursor anyway.

>> will the up & down axis interfere with left & right ???? <<

Did you have a use for Up and Down in Rudder Mode? If not, we can just use whatever switches to rudder switch the Up/Down axis to a constant center value and lock the Up/Down entirely. If you need the Up/Down, then it's still going to respond if you move the axis Up or Down a little.

>> Also, can the joystick trigger be used for wheel brakes as well as for firing the cannon ? i.e. the keypress would be Space & K. So Cannon would only fire with weight off the wheels (with master arm on), but only brakes would 'fire' with weight on the wheels ??? <<

Almost. :) The problem is knowing when the weight is off the wheels, the script couldn't see that. It could probably see landing gear up and down, though. Would that work as well?

>> I still don't fully understand how the Rouge profile works (where are the shift buttons ???, TMS changing function ???), but it looks very impressive and seems to have everything I require and a bit more. <<

Yup. I don't know the map, but Rogue did some very nice work. I still see him around now and then, but I think maybe he's gone on to do other things for awhile. The shift button looks to be the pinky button on the FighterStick (button 4). There's a checkbox there that's marked "Shift". You can only check one button, whichever one is checked is the shift button.

So, let me know about the Up/Down lock, how you want to switch it, and whether the landing gear would be suitable for the cannon/brake signal. Also, the zip you pointed to has to maps in it, one for F4 and one for F4AF. Which one did you want to use?

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[Tit Head]

Right Bob, I think I'm ready captain.

[Tit Head]

Bob,

I'm looking at the Rogue profile with CM 4.2 and it doesn't seem to show all the key presses described on the layout.PDF

I'd like to swap some of the options and delete some of the options on the existing rogue profile, as well as the rudder thing.

I'm proper lost though, so many key presses appear to be missing from the rogue file.

Cheers,

Tit Head

[Bob Church]

Hi Tit Head,

>> I'm looking at the Rogue profile with CM 4.2 and it doesn't seem to show all the key presses described on the layout.PDF

I'd like to swap some of the options and delete some of the options on the existing rogue profile, as well as the rudder thing.

I'm proper lost though, so many key presses appear to be missing from the rogue file. <<

I don't know. I took a quick look at the PDF. He's used to colors for the text, one normal and the other shifted, but the ones I looked at seemed to match.

The PDFs are done manually, e.g. Rogue filled them in himself based on the map he'd created, so if what's programmed on the controller is what goes to the sim, that's all that really matters. If it doesn't match what the PDF says, then it's the PDF that's wrong. Doesn't sound like RogueSqdn, though.

Which ones don't seem to match and what programming is in the map for them?

Edit: You could try running the map through CMPrint, have it spit out JPG files, and see what it says. It actually reads the map itself for the information.

Also, some things that look "missing" just may be things that RS passed through the script. Pushing a button on the stick might cause the function, but the function itself may not be programmed directly to the stick. It might be that the button activates a script and the button that actually causes things to happen is controlled from the script and comes out on the CMS Controls. It can be misleading sometimes. It doesn't make any sense to try and make a map of CMS buttons, some guys put the function title on the picture of the stick even though the actual functions comes from elsewhere.

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[Tit Head]

I'm seem to be missing the basics, I've read the idiot guide but I'm still not sure if I'm doing it right.

I'm loading the profile in the CM but it's not working in game.

I've transferred the .key file to AF but it's just not working ??? :joystick::joystick:

I loaded the cmc file too.

Tit Head :cheers:

[Chris0381]

Here is a rudder script I made for my 4 way hat on the combat stick. B8-B10 sideway movement of the hat. It is assigned to CMS Axis 3 and prevent over travel and recenters the axis slowly so the plane doesnt jerk left or right on release (so its not a permenant trim and works nice).

B21 is the 4WAY HAT Center.

You could do this with on of your hats.

//RUDDER MOVEMENT

// Rudder Iinitial Centering
IF( FIRSTSCAN ) THEN
CMS.A3 = 128;
ENDIF

//Incase Immediate Change in Rudder Direction Needed.

SEQUENCE
WAIT( JS1.B8); //Sets AXIS-3 to Center Immediatly
CMS.A3 = 128;
ENDSEQUENCE

SEQUENCE
WAIT( JS1.B10); //Sets AXIS-3 to Center Immediatly
CMS.A3 = 128;
ENDSEQUENCE

//Moves Rudder Left or Right

TIMER ( INTERVAL, D1, 1, 1 ) = JS1.B8 AND NOT JS1.B4;
TIMER ( INTERVAL, D2, 1, 1 ) = JS1.B10 AND NOT JS1.B4;
IF ( D1 ) THEN
CMS.A3 = CMS.A3 - 1;
ENDIF
IF ( D2 ) THEN
CMS.A3 = CMS.A3 + 1;
ENDIF

//PREVENTS X-AXIS OVER-TRAVEL

IF ([CMS.A3 > 255]) THEN
CMS.A3=255;
ENDIF
IF ([CMS.A3 < 0]) THEN
CMS.A3=0;
ENDIF


// First set up an interval timer to generate the clock
// ticks. The timer is active when the hat is centered.
// The js1.b21 reference is hat center.
//
TIMER( INTERVAL, D3, 1, 5 ) = JS1.B21;

// Now see if the timer ticked
//
IF( D3 ) THEN

// If it's too high, drop it by 1
//
IF([ CMS.A3 > 128 ]) THEN
CMS.A3 = CMS.A3 - 1;
ENDIF

// If it's too low, increase it by 1
//
IF([ CMS.A3 < 128 ])THEN
CMS.A3 = CMS.A3 + 1;
ENDIF
ENDIF

//END OF RUDDER SCRIPT

[Tit Head]

Cheers mate, I'll take a look once I've learned how to load a profile.

[Bob Church]

Hi Tit Head,

Add the "CMS Controls" to the map using the "Add" button if you haven't already. That will enable the CMS Editor button on the tool bar. Click that, a text editor will open with an empty script, just "script" and "endScript" statements and a few lines at the top of ID text. Copy this piece from Chris' post:


//RUDDER MOVEMENT

// Rudder Iinitial Centering
IF( FIRSTSCAN ) THEN
CMS.A3 = 128;
ENDIF

//Incase Immediate Change in Rudder Direction Needed.

SEQUENCE
WAIT( JS1.B8); //Sets AXIS-3 to Center Immediatly
CMS.A3 = 128;
ENDSEQUENCE

SEQUENCE
WAIT( JS1.B10); //Sets AXIS-3 to Center Immediatly
CMS.A3 = 128;
ENDSEQUENCE

//Moves Rudder Left or Right

TIMER ( INTERVAL, D1, 1, 1 ) = JS1.B8 AND NOT JS1.B4;
TIMER ( INTERVAL, D2, 1, 1 ) = JS1.B10 AND NOT JS1.B4;
IF ( D1 ) THEN
CMS.A3 = CMS.A3 - 1;
ENDIF
IF ( D2 ) THEN
CMS.A3 = CMS.A3 + 1;
ENDIF

//PREVENTS X-AXIS OVER-TRAVEL

IF ([CMS.A3 > 255]) THEN
CMS.A3=255;
ENDIF
IF ([CMS.A3 < 0]) THEN
CMS.A3=0;
ENDIF


// First set up an interval timer to generate the clock
// ticks. The timer is active when the hat is centered.
// The js1.b21 reference is hat center.
//
TIMER( INTERVAL, D3, 1, 5 ) = JS1.B21;

// Now see if the timer ticked
//
IF( D3 ) THEN

// If it's too high, drop it by 1
//
IF([ CMS.A3 > 128 ]) THEN
CMS.A3 = CMS.A3 - 1;
ENDIF

// If it's too low, increase it by 1
//
IF([ CMS.A3 < 128 ])THEN
CMS.A3 = CMS.A3 + 1;
ENDIF
ENDIF

//END OF RUDDER SCRIPT

Put it between the "script" and "endScript" statements that are there already, you should be set. Click the tool bar button in the upper left part of the CM Editor with the red check mark on it, that will check the script for any errors. The script compiles okay, so it's just a check to make sure you got it all in place. Once it tells you that it compiled okay, hit the CM Editor Exit button to get back to the GUI, save the map, download it and you should be set to go.

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[Chris0381]

Thanks Bob. You may notice a piece of your code in there.

Lets not forget to assign a CMS axis also and in this case its CMS A-3.

Substitute your hat buttons for B8 - B10 in the script and make sure you B21 is changed to your hat center.

You should be good to go

[Tit Head]

Hey thanks fellas. :cheers:

I've only just been taught today how to load a profile by a helpful person called Aragorn on a F4 forum. He/She's been very helpful and got me up and running.

I've just followed Bob's instructions from Chris's script, I'll just go and see if it works.

Will this overwrite what's already in the profile for that hat switch ???

How do I combine what I've got on the rouge profile with Chris's trick ?

Apologies for being slow with this, but I'm slow in general and probably why my friends call me tit head.

Cheers,

Tit Head :cheers::joystick::joystick:

[Tit Head]

Thanks Bob. You may notice a piece of your code in there.

Lets not forget to assign a CMS axis also and in this case its CMS A-3.

Substitute your hat buttons for B8 - B10 in the script and make sure you B21 is changed to your hat center.

You should be good to go

Chris,

What does this mean ?

Cheers,

Tit Head :confused::confused::confused:

[Bob Church]

Hi Tit Head,

>> Lets not forget to assign a CMS axis also and in this case its CMS.A3. <<

He's talking about the assignment on the CMS Controls tab. Axis 3 needs to be assigned to something, it looks like whatever CM Device Axis controls the rudder position.

>> Substitute your hat buttons for B8 - B10 in the script... <<

The script that Chris posted is using Buttons js1.b8 and js1.b10. You want to move to a hat so you need to change those references to match the hat positions you want to use. The 4-way hats have regular button numbers, the POV doen't have button numbers in the GUI, but you can reference the positions in the script using b25 through b32. A js1.b25 reference is "POV Up" on js1, then they run clockwise around the hat in order with js1.b32 being POV Up/Left".

>> and make sure you B21 is changed to your hat center. <<

The hats have center positions so you can detect when they've been released. The js1.b21 reference is TRUE when Hat 1 is centered. js1.b22 is Hat 2, js1.b23 is Hat 3, and js1.b24 is the POV. He's just saying that the hat positions and center position need to be right for the hat you're going to use.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com