IL-2FB multi-engine aircraft throttles

[II./JG1_Rudi]

Please excuse me for possibly going over "old ground", but I seem to recall a thread about how one could set up the Pro Throttle's mini-stick to control separate engine throttles depending upon which direction you moved the mini-stick. I'd love to be able to do this for the Bf-110, He-111, and the P-38.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks!

[JNOV]

If you're talking about Aces High, by chance (edit: Doh! Sorry, I just saw IL-2 in the subject line of your post), you can download my profile from the Prop Sim Profiles forum. AH is nice, because it supports separate throttle axes for the separate engines. In the forum post, there's a description of how the ministick works to control the left and right engines.

If you're talking about IL-2, the situation's not so nice, because it just has one throttle axis, which you can selectively assign to the various engines in your plane. (I'm pretty new to IL-2, so if I'm wrong about there being just one throttle axis, I'd love to know!) I use a hat switch to select either all engines, left engines, or right engines, but you could certainly use the minstick to do this, as well.

I've started flying the P-38 in IL-2 a bit, and I found it hard to remember which engine the throttle is controlling and where the throttle input to the non-controlled engines are set. To help with the problem, I created a heads-up display, of sorts:

http://home.austin.rr.com/kandeburgess/CH_Hangar/Dual%20Throttle%20HUD.jpg

The two-part bar at the bottom indicates which engine(s), left or right or both, the throttle is currently controlling (green indicates control, red indicates frozen), and the "L" (left) and "R" (right) chevrons indicate the throttle inputs to the left and right engines, respectively. It's not as convenient or intuitive as the AH solution, but with just one throttle input available, I'm not sure what else can be done.

I'm going to make my IL-2 profile and the feedback "HUD" program available for download shortly, so you can experiment with it if you'd like.

- JNOV

[II./JG1_Rudi]

Thanks, JNOV, and I'll look for your IL-2FB map. I already use a hat switch for selecting different engines...just wondering if there was a way to program the ministick to act as both engine selector AND throttle as you did in AH.

[JNOV]

I wish there were, but I don't know how to do it with only one throttle input.

The way it works in the AH map is by sending the actual throttle input to two "virtual" (i.e., cms axis) throttles, which eventually get mapped to left and right engine throttle inputs in AH. The percentage of the actual throttle input that gets mapped to the two virtual throttles is controlled by the deflection of the ministick. With only one input, I don't know how to accomplish anything like the same effect.

Actually, now that I think about it, it may be doable, but it would be a "poor man's version." That is, when the ministick is deflected away from center toward the right, for instance, throttle control would switch to the right engine. But rather than be controlled by the position of the physical throttle, the game's throttle input would be the actual throttle control, scaled inversely to the degree of deflection. I think that this would work. The only limitation in comparison to the AH scheme is that while the ministick is deflected to the right (left), the input to the left (right) engine cannot be changed. This shouldn't be a big limitation, though, because the way that I would normally use the control in AH would be to "brake" one of the engines in order to generate yaw in that direction due to the unequal engine thrusts. That would still work with this scheme.

I'll work on this tonight and let you know how it goes.

- JNOV

[JNOV]

Hi Rudi:

I modified the AH profile to work with IL-2's single throttle axis. It seems to work well, albeit with the limitation that I noted above. Here is the script:

// ================================================== =========================================
// Use mini-stick x-axis to control power output to left/right engines. Conceptually,
// think of the mini-stick x-axis as braking the left or right engines, depending on
// which way it is pushed. If left centered, it passes the throttle through unmodified.
//
// cms.a20: Virtual axis for left, right, or both engine(s) throttle(s), depending upon
// whether ministick is deflected left, deflected right, or centered, respectively.
//
//
// NOTE: Mini-stick is used as mouse if Shift #1 is pressed (pinkie switch). In that case,
// physical throttle input is not modified by ministick.
// ================================================== =========================================

%define DB 25
%define MSRightEngines b60
%define MSLeftEngines b61
%define MSAllEngines b62

a60 = 255 - (2*js2.a1); // [0 -> 255] as ministick moves from center to left limit
a61 = (2*js2.a1) - 255; // [0 -> 255] as ministick moves from center to right limit

// Ministick centered
cms.a20 = js2.a3; // Default is throttle is not modified

sequence
wait ([a60 <= DB] and [a61 <= DB] and NoShift);
MSRightEngines = FALSE;
MSLeftEngines = FALSE;
MSAllEngines = TRUE;
endsequence

// Left engine throttle (ministick left)
if ([a60 > DB] and NoShift) then
cms.a20 = js2.a3 + a60 - DB;
endif

sequence
wait ([a60 > DB] and NoShift);
MSRightEngines = FALSE;
MSLeftEngines = TRUE;
MSAllEngines = FALSE;
endsequence

// Right engine throttle (ministick right)
if ([a61 > DB] and NoShift) then
cms.a20 = js2.a3 + a61 - DB;
endif

sequence
wait ([a61 > DB] and NoShift);
MSRightEngines = TRUE;
MSLeftEngines = FALSE;
MSAllEngines = FALSE;
endsequence

// ================================================== =========================================

The MSRightEngines, MSLeftEngines, and MSAllEngines are Boolean (i.e., true/false) variables that are used to send the "select right engines," "select left engines," and "select all engines" commands later in the script.

I&#39;ve attached the Control Manager files and a keymap, if you want to take a look at how it fits together. Note that if you download the profile, it&#39;s got a whole bunch of stuff in it that is there only for the feedback program I described above. It won&#39;t hurt anything, but it might be a bit confusing.

- JNOV

[II./JG1_Rudi]

:thumbsup: Terrific, JNOV, and thanks. Unfortunately, I&#39;m on the road on a business trip and can&#39;t test this on my rig! :angry:

Hope to give it a spin tomorrow night and thanks again for the script. S!

[Bluenose69]

JONV,

Just wondering how the feedback HUD was coming along? I&#39;m very interested in it.

Bluenose

[Bluenose69]

JONV,

Just wondering how the feedback HUD was coming along? I&#39;m very interested in it.

Bluenose

[JNOV]

Blue:

I&#39;ve sent it to a couple of folks to beta test. It&#39;s general purpose (as of now it will work with games that use DirectX8 and 9), but I&#39;ve created an IL-2 demo HUD to give some idea of what you can do with it and how you go about configuring it. I&#39;ve tested that demo fairly extensively on my PC, but I&#39;d like to know that it will run on someone else&#39;s before making it widely available. If you&#39;d like to test it, send me an e-mail with a return e-mail address where you can receive a 5-6 MB attachment, and I&#39;ll send it to you.

Best regards,

JNOV

[Bluenose69]

JNOV,

Great news. I&#39;m heading out of town tomorrow for 4 days but perhaps next week i&#39;ll drop you a line.

Bluenose

PS. Keep up the great work

[stephenju]

Wow. The feedback HUD looks great. Any progress on it?

Also, I am curious on how you do it. Do you get the information from the CH Manager software, or from the game?

[Locust_]

Originally posted by JNOV@May 24 2004, 02:00 AM
If you&#39;re talking about Aces High, by chance (edit: Doh! Sorry, I just saw IL-2 in the subject line of your post), you can download my profile from the Prop Sim Profiles forum. AH is nice, because it supports separate throttle axes for the separate engines. In the forum post, there&#39;s a description of how the ministick works to control the left and right engines.

If you&#39;re talking about IL-2, the situation&#39;s not so nice, because it just has one throttle axis, which you can selectively assign to the various engines in your plane. (I&#39;m pretty new to IL-2, so if I&#39;m wrong about there being just one throttle axis, I&#39;d love to know!) I use a hat switch to select either all engines, left engines, or right engines, but you could certainly use the minstick to do this, as well.

I&#39;ve started flying the P-38 in IL-2 a bit, and I found it hard to remember which engine the throttle is controlling and where the throttle input to the non-controlled engines are set. To help with the problem, I created a heads-up display, of sorts:

http://home.austin.rr.com/kandeburgess/CH_Hangar/Dual%20Throttle%20HUD.jpg

The two-part bar at the bottom indicates which engine(s), left or right or both, the throttle is currently controlling (green indicates control, red indicates frozen), and the "L" (left) and "R" (right) chevrons indicate the throttle inputs to the left and right engines, respectively. It&#39;s not as convenient or intuitive as the AH solution, but with just one throttle input available, I&#39;m not sure what else can be done.

I&#39;m going to make my IL-2 profile and the feedback "HUD" program available for download shortly, so you can experiment with it if you&#39;d like.

- JNOV
nice, but that kinda detracts from the reality part.


looks good for calibration & testing tho :thumbsup:

[JNOV]

Locust:

Fair point, maybe, but I find that once I constrain reality by removing G forces, removing stick forces, looking through a flat 21" monitor, eliminating peripheral vision, squinting to make out instruments that I can barely read, and re-upping after getting shot through my virutal skull, I&#39;m willing to suspend disbelief just a bit further :)

Stephen:

All of the information comes from the HOTAS. There is no hack into IL-2&#39;s data structures. Although with the latest patch, you can access all sorts of things like speed, climb, g, etc. through a UDP connection. I think it&#39;s called direct link, or something like that. It&#39;s described in the read me. I think that it was included so that cockpit builders could read plane data to drive physical analog instruments, but, obviously, the data could be used for other purposes, as well.

- JNOV