What controllers would you like to see next?

[Revvin]

Not that there is anything wrong with the current line-up of course :) but what would you like to see next from CH after the throttle quadrant? An F15 style stick with split throttle? an F16 stick but made of metal? perhaps something a little more historical like a replica Spitfire spade grip? or similar long stick that could be floor mounted for those WWII sims on your HDD?

[MichaelCHProd]

Good question...... what would you like to see next?

[Revvin]

Well me personally I'm torn between an F15 style stick and split throttle and something like a floor mounted stick. I like the idea of an F15 stick partly because I like to play Lock On but mainly because it would be something different. It seems everyone when they come to do a really serious controller (not some generic looking stick that looks like it was taken out of Buck Rogers spaceship) they choose the F16 stick and throttle. There has not been an F15 stick since the Suncom ones which was many many years ago.

My other choice would be a floor mounted stick with perhaps a WWII style grip like a Spitfire spade grip perhaps or even one with an interchangeable handle for a more standard grip. Simcontrol do a floor mounted arrangement it's just a shame they did'nt decide to convert a CH stick instead of a low end Saitek stick. There's a guy who plays Warbirds and WWIIOL that has used one of these units and made a Spitfire spade style grip.

Other than that has CH thought about creating mounts for their sticks? like the old HOTASS wooden frame that you could mount a stick and throttle unit upon.

[Bodhammer]

This one is a no brainer for me.

I WANT THE FORCE FX in USB!!!! (yes I'm shouting!)

Playing Freespace 2 with the Force FX, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals was the best gaming experience I have ever had. I now have the FighterStick, Pro Pedals, and Pro Throttle in USB after a bad trip to the French Side ( cougar...). I love it for all games and Bob Church has fixed all my bitches with Speedkeys.

The only thing I really miss is the great force feedback that the Force FX had - My MSFF2 is good but it is discontinued and still is a distant second to the FX.


Thanks,
P.


p.s. Where's the gaming chair Debby talked about last fall?

[No.6]

Originally posted by Bodhammer@Jan 3 2004, 03:04 AM
This one is a no brainer for me.

I WANT THE FORCE FX in USB!!!! (yes I'm shouting!)

Playing Freespace 2 with the Force FX, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals was the best gaming experience I have ever had. I now have the FighterStick, Pro Pedals, and Pro Throttle in USB after a bad trip to the French Side ( cougar...). I love it for all games and Bob Church has fixed all my bitches with Speedkeys.

The only thing I really miss is the great force feedback that the Force FX had - My MSFF2 is good but it is discontinued and still is a distant second to the FX.


Thanks,
P.


p.s. Where's the gaming chair Debby talked about last fall?
I'll second the Force FX request, as long as it has one 8-way hat on it (like the present USB Combatstick). The original had only the 4-way hat which was inconvenient.

[Wayno]

B) I agree, we need more feedback in the Fighterstick USB. An adjustable backpressure spring would even do it. If there is no other way, let there be Force Feedback!
Everything else about the CH Hotas is perfect, but it does need more Fighterstick "feel" feedback!

[Bodhammer]

Originally posted by Wayno@Jan 4 2004, 10:18 PM
B) I agree, we need more feedback in the Fighterstick USB. An adjustableÂ* backpressure spring would even do it. If there is no other way, let there be Force Feedback!

See here for mod information:

http://oldsite.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/board...c;f=15;t=004783 (http://oldsite.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004783)

[Twilight]

I agree:

1. Heavier springs
2. Forcefeedback

I would also like to see authentic throttle controls (especially F-16's). If they almost did it for the stick, I think there shouldn't be much trouble to do the same for the throttle.

MFD controls would also be nice!! (I just hate having to resort to the mouse to click on the mfd's!!)


My $0.02!

Twilight

[JNOV]

Now that we've got this really cool CMS, I'd like a "controller" to provide feedback to the user. This could be any sort of a USB device, from a bank of programmable LEDs to a simple LCD. It could work by trapping strings of "keypresses" sent from the controllers that are delimited by a definable control sequence, such as "\~".

The problem is that I find the three (four) modes completely inadequate and consequently write scripts to define many more than that. Also, I don't like to have to change modes in a universal fashion. For instance, in a WWII prop sim, I like to maintain separate modes for gunnery and axis response. I do this completely in CMS without using the GUI's different modes. This works VERY well, with the exception that the LEDs don't reflect the current mode. It would be really nice if there were a separate device that I could "program on the fly" to provide feedback using control strings sent from the controllers.

Actually, this could be accomplished completely in software. One way would be to provide a small field for displaying text or simple graphics on the screen (much like a "frames-per-second" display) that would simply echo the control strings sent from the controllers. For instance, I when I switch into "cannon" mode I could program the controller to send the string "/~Cannons" which would be echoed on the screen. Obviously, this could be made much more elaborate, but this is the general idea.

Just my $0.02,

JNOV

[Revvin]

It's funny you should bring this up as tonight I was looking at the CMS to try and utilise the mode LED's to signify a command being executed. In 'Aces High' there is a button you need to hold down ( 'y' key)while moving the joystick to hold the crosshair over a fixed location to calibrate the games bombsight. I found out whilst playing the sim a while ago that holding down the 'y' key for around 12 seconds yielded the best results so I added the right delay to the sequence but thought it would be nice if the LED changed as the 12 second time calibration time elapsed, like a traffic light sequence. The first problem I encountered was that when controlling the mode change with CMS using the 'CURRENTMODE = X' command the LED's don't work as you can have up to four modes through CMS so then I tried reverting back to the Pro Throttle controlling the mode and mapping a CMS button to mimic button 1 on the Pro Throttle but that did'nt work either. It would be nice to be able to cntrol the LED's through the CMS as in my example I could always ensure the right LED was lit at the start of the sequence. I don't know if this is a feature that could be added to the next version of Control Manager or whether it's a hardware constraint stopping this from being done at all.

[JNOV]

Hi, Revvin. Thanks for setting this up. It's something CH users have needed for a long time.

I believe that the LEDs on the stick and throttle are unfortunately hard-wired to the side forefinger and mini-stick buttons, respectively. It would be nice if CMS could toggle them on and off independently, but I don't think it is possible.

By the way, I've got profiles (many with CMS scripting) for many different games, along with graphical illustrations of command definitions for most of them. I could zip them up and send them to you if you'd like. It seems like a bit much to post to them to the forum.

[Revvin]

Thanks JNOV hopefully we can pool the knowledge of a lot of users to help new and old users alike.

Shame if that is the case with the hardwiring, would have been nice to control but perhaps you'll get your wish of a visual read-out addon ;) I wonder if it could just be somethign that would sit between the controller and the USB port, like a pass through device with an LCD readout.

You can e-mail me the profile to revvin@ntlworld.com if you'd like, just please help me out and label the profiles as to what game and joysticks they are for and I will post them up, alternatively you can add them to the profiles section directly from your HDD by attaching them to a post just as you would would attach a file to an e-mail although the post won't appear straight away as I scan them with antivirus software and then clear the post to be displayed. I'd be grateful for any profiles you wish to submit.

[Bob Church]

Revvin,

>> The first problem I encountered was that when controlling the mode change with CMS using the &#39;CURRENTMODE = X&#39; command the LED&#39;s don&#39;t work as you can have up to four modes through CMS so then I tried reverting back to the Pro Throttle controlling the mode and mapping a CMS button to mimic button 1 on the Pro Throttle but that did&#39;nt work either. <<

JNOV is right, you can&#39;t set them. The LEDs cycle as a result of the button on the ProThrottle or Fighterstick. They can&#39;t really be set from the CM side.

It&#39;s not a 100% solution, but you can get it to do what you want in a lot of cases, you just need to look at it backwards. Trigger your event because the LED went on as opposed to telling the LED to turn on because the event occurred. Something like this:

script
sequence
wait( [ FTRSTKMODE == 0 ] );
// The Red LED just turned on, do something
endSequence
endScript

Not a complete solution, but it will act the same in a lot of situations.

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

[plummerx]

Well, I would LOVE to see a USB upgrade kit for my analog fighterstick, pro throttle, and pro peddals.
Mine are over six years old now, and refuse to break down.
I hate to give them up.
Barring that I would like to see:

If anyone of you ever tried a saitek GM2 left hand control pad, you would know it&#39;s a GREAT idea, cheaply executed.
A similar left hand controller, especially coupled with an optical mouse with a 4 way thumb hat/2 buttns and scroll wheel, made with CH&#39;s legendary quality, would be the absolute last word is control for PC shooters.

As to the subject of mice, Or even keyboards, there is so much worthless cheap junk on the market, that i think CH could carve out a nice niche for itself with solid, high end stuff designed for the gamer.

I would rather have all input to my pc go through CH designed and built devices.

[roadczar]

I&#39;d have to say a high end Force Feed back as well. Microsoft&#39;s FF2 is great, but was discontinued.

[Abledog]

And now for something completely different... ;)

I&#39;d love to see some kind of "portable" Joystick and Throttle combo for those of us who travel and have to rely on laptops for our flight sim/gaming needs. As it stands right now I carry with me a first generation USB CH Product Combatstick. It&#39;s a bit smaller than the newer USB 568 Combatstick and therefore easier to pack in my travel case.
Unfortunately the Pro Throttle is just to big to be hauled around.

Joystick and Throttle (handles to seperate from the base unit) and a sturdy, low profile case to carry them in.

Nick

[planephysician]

:w00t: I would LOVE to see a USB force feedback yoke with a throttle, flap handle ect..... Similar to a real aircraft - You build the BEST peripherals out there!

Dave

[DNME]

I&#39;d like to see a USB stick as a one in all controller with the following characteristics:

- with adjustable FFB through the software
- with adjustable centering force through the software
- with twist rudder
- with a throttle lever
- with a pinky switch
- with 8 programmable buttons
- with 1x 8 way hatswitch
- with optical sensors
- compatible with the other CH USB products
- must be built to last
- has to fit like a glove

Basically it would be a Sidewinder Force feedback 2 with optical sensors and a pinky switch added. But then from CH ofcourse. :P

[d'solo]

Still have all my old CH equipment that I purchased 5 or 6 years ago. Fighterstick,Pro Throttle & Pedals, all gameport, but I took the plunge and bought the same units in USB recently. The analog stuff is now safely packed ready to use if and that&#39;s a big IF the USB setup ever breaks down.

About the only addition I would like to see is a split throttle similar to the Suncom gear of days gone by and possibly heavier springs or some type of adjustable setup for the stick. Would be interesting to see a floor mounted stick too.

Great site Revvin.

[Spidey]

I would really really like to see a GAME PAD from CH.

My simulation needs are pretty much taken care of. But there really is a strong need for a quality Game Pad for the PC.

To date, I Think the Playstation 2 Game Pad with 10 buttons, 1 hat switch, and 2 Dual Analog Sticks are the ideal design. I have gone through about 4 or 5 game pads for the PC and they have all been very disappointing.

Just think...a Game Pad with the same PS2 design with Control Manger Functionality..i can map the axes to a mouse..i can flip flop and switch the axes around till i find the setting i like..i can have a ton of macros for the buttons..etc., etc.,

Please make one of those. Also make it so that you can combine it with the rest of the ch equipment.

I&#39;d say about $50 - $60 for top of the line Game Pad like that.

[Revvin]

Spidey> You can get an adapter which allows you to connect a PSOne,PS2 or N64 pad to the PC via a USB connector here (http://www.consolesandgadgets.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/27_66/products_id/254) I stumbled across this site a while ago while looking for an adapter for my Xbox controller, found one that was a little USB dongle that allowed you to connect 4 Xbox pads to it through one USB port and all analogue sticks and buttons were recognised. The PS2 adaptor costs £11 while the 4 way Xbox adapter was only £15!

[Spidey]

Revvin
I have tried them. But they don&#39;t have the programming functionality I need.

For example, the axes on the right analog stick can&#39;t be reassigned. So they are off by 90 degrees. So left is Up, Up is Right, etc.,

Very difficult to be constantly thinking of what direction you need to presss the sticlk.

[Revvin]

How about CH produce somethign like the Quickshot Masterpilot?
http://www.quickshot.com/images/game_controllers/masterpilot98cgw.jpg

Maybe it could incorporate an idea in another thread where you could have a better representation of mode type with an LCD display on it, perhaps even have it act as a USB hub and have the Fighterstick/Combatstick/Pro Throttle connect to it then connect the Masterpilot type device to one USB port? Perhaps in place of the throttle lever on the Masterpilot have a three or four way switch to operate mode&#39;s on the HOTAS? Perhaps you could even have a small display editor integrated into Control Manager much like those mobile phone graphics editors and be able to make the device show a graphic or text to better describe the mode you are in.

[Fridge]

*drool*

MasterPilot or other MFD type thingy would be sweet!

[Ark]

Personally I don&#39;t like Force Feedback sticks. It seems like there is almsot always an issue with games and Force Feedback.

What I would like to see is a stick with a similar design to the Cougar (all metal, accurate design/ergonomics)....only with the quality and tech support of CH. :thumbsup:

Dont&#39; get me wrong, the Cougar is definately a spectacle and I have one on the way (should be here tomorrow) to compliment my joystick collection (much to my wife&#39;s shigrin) but from what I hear the Couger has one issue after another...and the poor Cougar community is being left out in the cold by Guillmot (for reference, go to Cougar World).

Essentially, you have a two great communities (CH and Cougar) with the same goal, TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THEIR FLIGHT SIMMING. A Cougar style HOTAS arrangement with the quality/tech support/and backing of CH would be absolutely fantastic.

What the Cougar community needs is a company they know they can depend on, a company that doesn&#39;t take 1-4 months to ship them replacement parts, a company where their technical questions are ACTUALLY ANSWERED (although the community does a great job of handling the issues with the Cougar for close to $300....they shouldn&#39;t have too), what the Cougar community needs is CH.

My .02c

:)


Ark

[MichaelCHProd]

aahhhhh... to be loved :luv:


Seriously though Ark....

THANK YOU

[Ark]

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd@Jan 23 2004, 06:00 AM
aahhhhh... to be loved :luv:


Seriously though Ark....

THANK YOU
Don&#39;t thank me....

You guys are the ones doing all the work!



THANK YOU!

:cheers:

Ark

[Writer]

I&#39;d like to see a USB foot pad. Essentially a series of switches that you operate with your feet (I imagine something similar to guitar pedals). Would be a nice way to gain a few extra "buttons" for FPS/RTS games.

I&#39;ve often thought of designing and building one for myself...

[Twilight]

Hey,

Maybe what we and TM fans need is CH Products taking over TM. Then they could produce CH Cougars... :D


Twilight

[Revvin]

Looking back at all the sticks I&#39;ve ever owned before my current set I&#39;d have to say the most reliable and most fun to use was the Force FX, I wish CH could ressurect this awesome stick with USB support and perhaps the ability to change the handle so you could have an F15 grip or F16 depending on what you wanted to fly. Force FX combined with an intechangeable stick I think would be enough to tempt many sim players into the CH Borg collective :)

[MichaelCHProd]

A split throttle (F-15 style) holds a special place in my heart and changing handles on the stick is cool sounding, I&#39;ll bring it up in the next dev meeting. :unsure:

Metal construction is a show stopper. It has to be made here in the U.S., in our factory or it is not sold by us. :thumbsdown:

A game pad is cool sounding and the more I play MAME games on my PC the better it sounds. :)

Force Feedback, well what can I say... we were the first. Yep that is about all I can say. :(

The MFD... what would you do with it? I mean all it would be is an odd shaped keyboard. It would be neat to have the Control Manager for it but what really would you do with it? I like to keep my Hands On Throttle And Stick when playing.


Help me out where is the contender in this pack?

[Cajun]

I&#39;d also have to say Force Feedback and a split throttle for those planes that have 2 engines. Though now that i think about it i&#39;m not sure those jet sims that use 2 engines can even have the engine&#39;s at seperate rpms...so maybe it&#39;s not that good idea :rolleyes:

[Animal]

I want more resistance in the sticks and throttles.

An F-15 and split throttle would be cool. I would buy that.

A spitfire grip would also be cool.

[Fever]

A force feedback Combatstick would be great! However, work on reducing the size so it doesnt take up a ton of desk space. I keep my controls hard mounted to my desk and use the mouse outboard ot the stick. I wont be able to reach my mouse if the stick gets any bigger :) .

[geneb]

Hell I&#39;d buy an F-15 split throttle and grip, and I already have an F-15! :D


Seriously though, a good F-15 style throttle quadrant and a flight grip with the _correct_ buttons on it would be a big win I think. The Lock On fans would definately appriciate it.

Why not make two generic throttle bases - one for single engine control, the other for dual control. Also build a generic flight stick base. The end goal would be to produce throttle and flight grips for the F-15, F-16, A-10, Mig-29, Su-27, etc. and leave the bases the same.

There&#39;s no reason you have to go to the expense of using metal shells like the real thing. You saw what it got TM. They have a reasonably good product (great with modification) but it&#39;s too expensive for Joe Gamer and from a commercial standpoint it tanked.

Make them maintainable. Don&#39;t cost-reduce engineer your customers into a hole with custom switch and potentiometer assemblies that are nearly impossible to repair when they wear out.

You can get the heft of the real control grip by filling the wasted open interior spaces with glue-in/double sided tape-in pot metal slugs that could be sold as an optional item that could be installed by the customer.

By creating an interchangable system with the generic bases, you can create a quality product with an extended life-cycle by supporting multiple grip designs and using flash-upgradeable microcontrollers in the base to extend the core feature set.

Co-market with Lock On and the upcoming new release of Falcon and you can quickly find yourself at production capacity while your marketdroids look on in stunned amazement.

You build it, I&#39;ll guarantee to throw my money down on the table for the first F-15 version out of the door. Hell, i&#39;ll even advertise it on my site. :w00t:

g.

[Firefox]

Instead of using potentiometers that wear out, isnt there a way to do Digital or magnetic on the sticks, that way you would always be calibrated and never have to worry about replacing somthing inside the stick.

Then you could beef up the gimbal to add a bit of heft. That and the option to add a longer throw in (longer shaft :D).

Rudder pedals, while yours are ok, I need em wider, the CH pedals are way too narrow for me.

Multi control heads is a great idea and you could still use injection molding (no need for metal) still use the same internals just mount them in different places with a different style hat/button. And if you had the pluggable short or longer shaft then head replacement would be a no brainer :D. Cost well about 30 bucks a head might be affordable for most. But I dont know what your cost breakdown is. I do know if the head is 50% of the cost of a new stick IE 50 bucks, it wouldnt be affordable for most.

[JNOV]

I think Firefox has a good point about the pots. As far as I can tell, CH devices only return 256 discrete values to DirectX, so why not go optical? If you&#39;re going to go super-hi-res, you probably have to stick to analog (but not necessarily to pots--you could use something like Hall sensors that won&#39;t degrade over time).

- JNOV

[geneb]

Jnov, the reason they only return 256 positions is because it&#39;s an 8 bit A/D conversion.

Every joystick I&#39;ve ever seen, from the old DE15 to the new "digital" USB sticks only report 256 positions. The DE15 sticks don&#39;t have any A/D on them of course, but the RC circuit on the joystick interface does.

g.

[Twilight]

Optical controllers and interchangeable grips sound like excellent ideas to me.

A little more spring resistance wouldn&#39;t be bad either...

:thumbsup:


Twilight

[Twilight]

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd@Feb 6 2004, 06:13 AM
The MFD... what would you do with it? I mean all it would be is an odd shaped keyboard. It would be neat to have the Control Manager for it but what really would you do with it? I like to keep my Hands On Throttle And Stick when playing.

I for one, don&#39;t like to program my HOTAS to "mimic" the MFD buttons. After a while it gets to be painful. Maybe my scripting skills need some honing, maybe I&#39;m just lazy, but I definetely believe a MFD controller (2, actually) would make my life a LOT easier...

After all, real pilots have a HOTAS and a whole bunch of MFD buttons. Just an idea...



Twilight

[MichaelCHProd]

Ok... I can see that. Did you vote for the MFD in the poll?

[JNOV]

Originally posted by geneb@Feb 12 2004, 03:38 PM
Jnov, the reason they only return 256 positions is because it&#39;s an 8 bit A/D conversion.

Every joystick I&#39;ve ever seen, from the old DE15 to the new "digital" USB sticks only report 256 positions.Â* The DE15 sticks don&#39;t have any A/D on them of course, but the RC circuit on the joystick interface does.

g.
The Cougar has much higher resolution (at least 1024 positions), and DirectX allows for 16-bits (64k). My point is simply that 256-position optical encoders are not cost prohibitive and, as far as I know, superior to pots in every way (given equal resolution). For example, I&#39;ve never had an optical stick spike or drift on me, but I have had a CH stick do so. Granted, CH sticks use fine pots (and CH is great about replacing them), but they&#39;re still pots and eventually degrade.

- JNOV

[Twilight]

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd@Feb 13 2004, 03:36 AM
Ok... I can see that. Did you vote for the MFD in the poll?
Yeah, I was the ONLY one voting for the MFDs :( (where is the crying smiley when you need him??)

Anyway, I can see I lost, so let&#39;s go on to other things: Interchangeable handles, anyone?? :w00t:


Twilight

[MichaelCHProd]

You didn&#39;t loose. The Poll is on going. Write to a friend tell them they need to come pledge some MFD support. :D

[Twilight]

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd@Feb 13 2004, 04:31 PM
You didn&#39;t loose. The Poll is on going. Write to a friend tell them they need to come pledge some MFD support. :D
Yeah, I hope I had friends that were willing to buy this kind of expensive toys!! Most of my friends don&#39;t even have a decent joystick or gamepad. So, first I&#39;ll have to convince them to buy a decent set of CH&#39;s joysticks/throttles/pedals. (I need some pedals myself, hehehe)

(Don&#39;t tell anyone, but I think I&#39;m going to clone myself like Spidey suggested and vote again... :evil: )


Twilight

[MichaelCHProd]

I am sure you can express the need to for the MFD to other Sim Community members on other :thumbsdown: Forums and tell them a chance for a MFD can be found here at the Hangar. B)

Who knows maybe you will convince a TM guy to sign up (under a false name of course other wise the TM zealots might come for him in the night) and vote for a MFD so he can buy a piece of CH gear on the sly. :lol:


I know Don keeps a low profile now. I think I heard he has to constantly keep moving and changing his name every couple of days. B) But it&#39;s all good Don, if you need a place to crash I will always put you up. <s>

[Beercamel]

NO QUESTION ABOUT IT... A MFD THAT IS ALSO A CH COMPATIBLE USB HUB!!!!



Vince

[MichaelCHProd]

I trust you voted in the poll for the MFD. B)

[DNME]

Force Feedback stick with optical sensors. So that they will not require calibration nor be subject to spiking.

Adjustable centering force (ranging from very high to zero) and adjustable force feedback force (also ranging from very high to zero). To be adjusted through the software. And ofcourse compatible with other CH units and software.

:thumbsup:

[MichaelCHProd]

I hope you voted for Force Feedback. :D

[Sokol1]

I fly WWII sims, my dream is this joystick . :)

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/bf109cockpit/Stick.html


I vote for a WWII stick. F16 are too manys. :)

S!

Sokol1

[Hunter]

I&#39;m with Sokol on this one, a 109 stick would be S U P E R B

It&#39;s ergonomic and wouldn&#39;t be hard to manufacture and add a hat switch


Please I beg you on my hands and knees!!


And... with your expertise and dedication, youd win the hearts and minds of every ww2 simmer!


It&#39;s never been done before either

wink wink nudge nudge :thumbsup:

[Revvin]

How about a force feedback base with interchangeable handles <nudge nudge wink wink> "CH Chimera" anyone? ;)

[Hunter]

As long as theres a 109/190 handle for it :D

[Twilight]

Originally posted by Revvin@Feb 16 2004, 04:46 PM
How about a force feedback base with interchangeable handles <nudge nudge wink wink> "CH Chimera" anyone? ;)
Sounds excellent to me!!! :thumbsup:

But...first things first: Let&#39;s have those MFDs and then we talk about the interchangeable thing, OK? :D :D


Twilight

[Animal]

I cant find the poll Mike is talking about.
I dont know which I would choose.. the split throttle, or the MFD. I am already happy with the Fighterstick, but a split throttle I would buy in a heartbeat.

I vote split throttle..

[MichaelCHProd]

Top of the General Discussion Forum....


http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=150